Lawsuit over Cybertruck handles.

[dalton108]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cybertruck-lawsuit-faulty-doors-b2838453.html

I couldn’t find the original post about this accident. Otherwise, I would’ve dropped it in that discussion.

This gives a little bit more detail about the original discussion in terms of who the “good Samaritan” was and what he did in terms of trying to get people out.

He was friends with them and following the cybertruck when it crashed into the tree.

1. Is anybody doing a safety briefing with passengers to make sure they know how to access the release?

2. Do my lawyer friends think that it would be required of a “reasonable person” to do so?

3. People have died in their driveways in their Corvettes from heat exposure because it’s not entirely obvious how to get out if the battery dies (lever on the floor). When does this become a design flaw vs. a a failure to take personal responsibility?

4. Does the ethos of avoiding the accident in the first place make escape options less important?

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[ChiTownCT]

It all goes back to my original thought, why doesn't Tesla create something that can easily pop the windows. Move away from Flamethrowers and Cyber Beer Bottles and create something useful. I'm sure it wouldn't take that long, but the benefit would for sure outweigh these dumb deaths that could be avoided.

 

[CyberGus]

NHTSA is investigating, too (and not just Tesla, but the whole idea of electronic door controls).

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a67950740/tesla-changing-door-handles/

Note that no one can escape from any vehicle back seat when the child locks are engaged.

 

[Scoundrel]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cybertruck-lawsuit-faulty-doors-b2838453.html

I couldn’t find the original post about this accident. Otherwise, I would’ve dropped it in that discussion.

This gives a little bit more detail about the original discussion in terms of who the “good Samaritan” was and what he did in terms of trying to get people out.

He was friends with them and following the cybertruck when it crashed into the tree.

1. Is anybody doing a safety briefing with passengers to make sure they know how to access the release?

2. Do my lawyer friends think that it would be required of a “reasonable person” to do so?

3. People have died in their driveways in their Corvettes from heat exposure because it’s not entirely obvious how to get out if the battery dies (lever on the floor). When does this become a design flaw vs. a a failure to take personal responsibility?

4. Does the ethos of avoiding the accident in the first place make escape options less important?

I think this one.

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...ident-in-sf-bay-area-kills-3-injures-1.31338/

 

[CyberGus]

The DeLorean was notorious for trapping people in the car. The electric door locks were actuated by a solenoid instead of a motor, and the inductive kick could cause the relay to clamp shut. The solenoid was so strong that it was impossible to unlock the doors until the battery died!

You could pull the relay if you knew where to look. In my case, the relay has been replaced by a solid-state module.

Cars have been trapping people since forever. Owners should be fully aware of how to operate their vehicle, and passengers should ask when unfamiliar. That said, there's plenty of things Tesla could do to improve safety on this front, even without a major redesign or adding complexity.

 

[dalton108]

I think this one.

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...ident-in-sf-bay-area-kills-3-injures-1.31338/

Yep! That’s the one I couldn’t find it! Thanks!

 

[eswimm]

Definitely not a Tesla only problem and cars with child locks don't have override handles to escape them. I don't think it's a bad idea to revisit a safety issue however and I think part of the problem is that safer cars mean people survive worse and worse accidents than they have in the past. More serious collisions can increase the odds of fires that may necessitate getting out of a vehicle more quickly.

My BMW i8 has electronic door releases as well and the manual override lever on the front door is even less obvious than Tesla front doors.

 

[Pops]

Cars have been trapping people since forever. Owners should be fully aware of how to operate their vehicle, and passengers should ask when unfamiliar. That said, there's plenty of things Tesla could do to improve safety on this front, even without a major redesign or adding complexity.

New people are born every day. You will have people in your car that have never used that car before. Used cars are sold with lost manuals. Are we expected to give a "Preflight Safetly Speech" for all of these occasions, or should the vehicles so be so easy, intuitive and fault tolerant to avoid that requirement?

Keep in mind a lot of cars door handles already meet the definition of easy, intuitive and fault tolerant. Getting stuck in cars is not a common issue across all cars.

 

[dalton108]

New people are born every day. You will have people in your car that have never used that car before. Used cars are sold with lost manuals. Are we expected to give a "Preflight Safetly Speech" for all of these occasions, or should the vehicles so be so easy, intuitive and fault tolerant to avoid that requirement?

Keep in mind a lot of cars door handles already meet the definition of easy, intuitive and fault tolerant. Getting stuck in cars is not a common issue across all cars.

Really good point, @Pops What you’re talking about is known as known under the law as a “duty to warn.” The question presented is: Do we have one in this context?

When we’re talking about real property the rules are pretty clear and depends on what type of guest you have. I won’t get into the specifics but when we’re talking about somebody that you’ve invited onto your property you’ve got a very high level of responsibility.

It’s the kind of thing that most people naturally do though when you’ve got somebody getting into your car or coming to your house. “Hey watch that piece of tile there is loose” or “you have to pull it real hard when you close the door.” That kind of thing.

If you had an old complicated Italian sports car or something you would have to give somebody a briefing on how to get in or out. The same is true of my Corvette the handles are hidden from the outside and of course we all know that we have to train people on how to open the door to the CT both getting in and out (it’s kind of true with all Tesla’s).

So, yeah the question is setting aside Tesla may be needing to re-engineer egress/ingress due to products liability and regulation in China do we need to consider giving a briefing to our family and friends who ride with us in the backseat? Forget about liability could it make the difference in someone we care about getting out safely in the event of an emergency?

I don’t have an answer for anybody.

How many of you do fire drills at home? Who has a known emergency muster spot for their family if all hell breaks loose? The hypothetical “reasonable person” at law probably has done all of these things.

 

[BrockN]

I'd like to know if the rear doors really are kept shut in an accident if the child lock is on. At the very least, an airbag deployment should cancel the child lock function.

 

[eswimm]

Really good point, @Pops What you’re talking about is known as known under the law as a “duty to warn.” The question presented is: Do we have one in this context?

I'd say our duty to warn lies somewhere between none and our duty not to operate a vehicle at high speed while under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Likewise, your self-interest in being educated on how to operate the doors lies somewhere between zero and the level that keeps you out of a vehicle being operated by somebody who's hopelessly impaired.

There's a lot of blame to go around for those senseless deaths and a large portion of it lies with the victims, all of them.

 

[dalton108]

I'd say our duty to warn lies somewhere between none and our duty not to operate a vehicle at high speed while under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Likewise, your self-interest in being educated on how to operate the doors lies somewhere between zero and the level that keeps you out of a vehicle being operated by somebody who's hopelessly impaired.

There's a lot of blame to go around for those senseless deaths and a large portion of it lies with the victims, all of them.

Aligns with my personal feelings.

 

[Crissa]

How many of you do fire drills at home? Who has a known emergency muster spot for their family if all hell breaks loose? The hypothetical “reasonable person” at law probably has done all of these things.

We do that!

We even had to change our muster spot to some backups because the wires seem to love falling on our front stairs when they go down. So definitely check there's no gas lines or power lines that'll mess with your escape path.

On the handles? In almost all of these cases, excepting the drowned drunk woman, the vehicle was impacted such that the doors can't open because of frame damage. Which no handle would help.

-Crissa

 

[Mini2nut]

This is a hot topic among regulators right now. Even Rivian is doing a last minute redesign of the manual door handles on the upcoming R2 SUV before it goes into production.

https://insideevs.com/news/774645/rivian-r2-electronic-door-handle-redesign/

 

[hemiarch]

There is a mechanical release for the back doors too right? Is this influenced by the digital child lock?

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