Please bring the thumbwheel speed trim back!

[Wraven]

I would never buy a car w/o steering wheel or pedals until they fix these issues. FSD works great on my daily 25mi commute and I almost never intervene. However, I just got back from a 400 mile round trip to southern Arizona and was only able to use it about 50% of the time due to the speed issue the OP mentions and it's tendency to tailgate the car in front of me if traffic wasn't moving as fast as it wanted to go. Even in sloth mode - the only way to maintain a 2s interval was to disengage FSD.

Yours and the rest of the FSD community’s disengagement are why your 25mile commute has very few intervenes. Just like how it will continue to learn for that 400 mile trip. They must continue to move forward to achieve the intended product outcome. Moving back to fine human control isn’t learning.

Bad analogy time: These debates remind me of when a parent refuses to take the training wheels off a bicycle because they wish to control safety versus allowing further growth and learning. At some point you must allow more autonomy of riding the bicycle. That is the only path forward to learning how to ride independently.

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[dpoll995]

Doesn’t bother me about the speed control. The profiles work well for me. I run standard profile 99% of the time and hurry when I’m late. Most of the time I’m not even really paying attention to the speed it’s going. Just sitting there sipping coffee and thinking about my day. Lol

 

[georgek43]

Although I’m very serious about my FSD, and have a heartfelt belief in wanting FSD to work at its peak. That is why I want the scroll wheel for speed back,

but looking at some stat, we must all step back a little and be amused that we are in a bit of an echo chamber here.

some sobering facts (from the Grok and the web, not from Tesla advertising):
1. Tesla has less than a 5% market share of cars sold in the US. It’s lost a huge gain in the US EV sector (mainly from increased competition from Mercedes and GM)
2. Only about 12% of all Tesla owners own or subscribe to FSD (that is a real surprise to me)
3. Of those 12% subscribed to FSD, most estimates say it’s used less than 50% of the time by subscribers (mostly on highways),
4. and of the other half who use it more than half of the time less than half of those subscribers use it ‘full time’ (over 90%)

So, for of the 5% of us who bought a Tesla, and the 12% Of Tesla owners who subscribed or own FSD, and of the half of those who use it 50% or more, only half of them use it full time (90% or more which is most of us on this thread) we’re a tiny tiny tiny minority talking about it here. Maybe 0.09% or less of drivers on American roads right now are using Tesla FSD.

Thats roughly 1 driver in a thousand. We are a rarefied group. There’s not that many of us.

I think it behooves Tesla to make us all happy.

 

[DanWill]

I was originally ok with the new speed profiles, but when they first came out they had well defined limits, like standard was 5mph over, hurry was 10, etc. Since then they have changed them and now there is no setting for a 5mph over. In fact the same setting changes all the time. At times I'm going 10mph over risking getting a ticket and at other times, I'm going 3mph under the speed limit on the same setting... Also, and this is huge, there are so many rural roads around where I live that the mapping software has the wrong speed limit. FSD will never work right until the car knows the correct speeds for the roads. The road I live off of is 25mph off the highway and after a mile, changes to 35mph. The map software says that road is 60mph. Its ridiculously off, and could be dangerous. My 2015 F250 displays the correct speeds of the roads around me. Hard to believe Tesla can't get that fixed.

 

[georgek43]

Thank you. If you’ll look at my numerous posts, I am saying the exact same things. The previous system of percent speed offsets with a scroll wheel to fine tune and correct errors was much better. Besides it just not working to set reasonable, safe and legal speeds, this ‘let the car decide the speed’ is dangerous hubris and plain nonsense. It may work in Austin on a few highly controlled roads, but we’re nowhere near having that work safely nationwide.

Keep the speed profiles for those that like them, (and to keep from bruising the developers’ egos too much) but we need the “set the precise speed on the scroll wheel“ control back.

 

[AeonX]

I agree with having custom precise control of speed with the scroll wheel.

As a rare case scenario for the precision speed dial control, a few months ago before the profile updates, we took an epic trip off road down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Yes it is possible and less than 5% of the world has taken on this incredible journey as explained by non other than Grok. Fantastic adventure done on 98% of FSD. Absolute must bucket list item for Cybertruck owners, can't say this enough.

The single most important reason that made this even possible & amazingly well, in fact nearly to perfection was the ability to precisely dial in the speed on demand function using the scroll wheel.

Had a phenomenal time and was absolutely amazed at how awesome FSD sight only could really recognize and handle off road curves without road lines nor signs whatsoever.

FSD road turning works awesomely well, but the speed was not yet baked well enough. The speed scroll allowed us to keep it at 10-15mph for some parts while shifting to 35mph for other more straight forward parts of the journey.


Having said this, now with the current 14.2.2 software build I would hesitate to redo this trip on FSD without the speed dial scroll wheel feature.

I can only imagine that if I lived in or simply traveled more on off road country roads, I would be begging for this feature back so I could take advantage of FSD's many cameras and safety features that have saved my family's lives many times over -

Thank you Tesla, sincerely thank you Elon.

So I definitely vote for bringing it back even for those rare case scenarios as mine and everything else in between so we have the choice and freedom to use at will or even if FSD Unsupervised is solved and approved.

 

[georgek43]

Yours and the rest of the FSD community’s disengagement are why your 25mile commute has very few intervenes. Just like how it will continue to learn for that 400 mile trip. They must continue to move forward to achieve the intended product outcome. Moving back to fine human control isn’t learning.

Bad analogy time: These debates remind me of when a parent refuses to take the training wheels off a bicycle because they wish to control safety versus allowing further growth and learning. At some point you must allow more autonomy of riding the bicycle. That is the only path forward to learning how to ride independently.

 

[RM Rilke]

In order to have unsupervised FSD Tesla will need to increasingly take on the liability. That means they will need to control parameters like speed and risk. Currently, we are in a transition zone where the risk is shared around the parameters of what mode is chosen by the driver. My history as a driver also loads my behavioral priors such that I too would like to have control over the speed. Unfortunately, that isn’t likely to happen within the legal environment where FSD is being developed. As it becomes increasingly autonomous, the driver will become more and more of a passive passenger. We are headed down a control gradient towards the primacy of the software. My favorite part of FSD is that my primate drives to compete for position and aggressively interact with other drivers is taken out of the equation. That feels great. I will trade control for serenity and safety. The predictability and consistency will result in significantly faster travel times for everyone overall. That is where we are headed.

 

[Gigahorse]

They will bring it back eventually, just like the Stalks on the Y and 3
One of those ideas that "simple is better" but the overall FSD is not doing a good enough job so more human interaction is needed, so removing those interfaces will come back, eventually.

 

[SCTesla]

They will bring it back eventually, just like the Stalks on the Y and 3
One of those ideas that "simple is better" but the overall FSD is not doing a good enough job so more human interaction is needed, so removing those interfaces will come back, eventually.

Maybe not.

They didn't take it away by choice. It was too difficult to program in v14

 

[Cybertruck2024]

Strange that "Full Self Driving" feature set should have more human input. I think you guys bought into a stage of the product development but not its intended future. What happens when there is no steering wheel or pedals?

This is also why the name Full Self Driving is under litigation in California.

Take away my pedals. Take away my steering wheel. Take away my liability. I'm all in.

As long as I have liability, I need more control. As is, we're in no man's land where the truck performs dangerously and illegally and our only recourse is to not use the feature we paid for.

 

[65SoYoLO]

Take away my pedals. Take away my steering wheel. Take away my liability. I'm all in.

I will not drive a vehicle without controls.

 

[Wraven]

I will not drive a vehicle without controls.

You are technically correct.

 

[Gigahorse]

This is also why the name Full Self Driving is under litigation in California.

Take away my pedals. Take away my steering wheel. Take away my liability. I'm all in.

As long as I have liability, I need more control. As is, we're in no man's land where the truck performs dangerously and illegally and our only recourse is to not use the feature we paid for.

Which is the problem, selling it as "FULL SELF DRIVING" but your still 100% on the hook for doing 100% of the supervising, and if you blink, or trust the system more than you should for half a second you are liable.

 

[georgek43]

It’s a real frustration for current owners who bought something else clearly labeled “supervised full self driving driver assist’‘. Still, the legal position is clear: Tesla repeatedly says to this minute that FSD is a “driver assistance system”, and is never legally driving the car. If the car speeds, drives recklessly, runs over something, or crashes based on its own inputs, Tesla says you were still “driving,” and it’s still going to be your problem.

Look in your manual and user agreements.

And as every single Tesla owner who lives in reality knows, FSD14 is far from perfect and still makes a lot of dangerous mistakes in addition to its absolutely terrible speed management. It’s amazing in many ways, especially on highways when it can sense and stay with traffic, but it’s not so good in neighborhoods, on city streets or rural roads without traffic.

No matter the speed profile selected (which IS driver input), the vehicle ALWAYS ON EVERY SINGLE TRIP, requires driver input to switch profiles to stay within the legal speed limit, or multiple presses on the accelerator to not lag behind or drive under the speed limits, and occasionally requires a disengagement because of a dumb turn or bad routing. Every actual owner knows exactly what I am describing. Anyone who says it drives everywhere ‘without a single input’ and gets their ‘100% FSD badge‘ has a tolerance for errors that’s much bigger than mine.

For safety and liability Tesla owners must have driver oversight of speed, and it was simply much better and simpler when the driver could set the max speed with the scroll wheel.

I just don’t get the percentage of prematurely taking away driver speed control and going all autonomous when it’s just not quite ready for it- I do not appreciate paying to be an unwilling test bed. For me this has effectively downgraded a vehicle driver assist system that I purchased, loved and trusted, reduced my use of FSD, and significantly reduced my enjoyment of my vehicle.

Saying that having the driver set speed instead of the AI is ‘too hard to program into FSD14‘ is simply nonsense and disingenuous. This is a marketing decision to force a paradigm shift- someone believed that if drivers could still control the speed, most would, and that would give them less FSD data for their full autonomous dream.

and let’s look at their marketing fluff- ‘7 billion miles of FSD’. Sounds amazing, right? It’s right on their website. Yet that’s over 5 years since Oct 2020. But Americans drove over 3.2 TRILLION miles just last year and have driven well over 15 TRILLION miles in the same time frame. That means the data set is less than 0.05% of miles driven on American roads. Not that much, really.

I believe the developers are certainly smart enough to include the scroll wheel speed control, but someone made a really unwise marketing management decision. I am still hopeful that there is some adult in Austin who will override it even if it’s just a selectable option as a speed profile for those owners that want to use it, and return speed control to the scroll wheel.

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