350 mile range Quad Motor rumored to be 1st trim launched

BayouCityBob

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And in a fantasy world where more range doesn't cost money I'd only talk about range too.
Range is pretty cheap. At a pack price of $125/kwh (Tesla is cheaper than that) the cost per mile is waaay at the outside assuming a 2.8 mile per kwh efficiency, $60 per mile including a 30% GM. So even with extremely conservative assumptions, an extra 150 miles is under $10,000 in battery pack costs (including margin).

Edit: Where range becomes expensive is when a company is short battery capacity and the economic trade off is about fewer sales rather than the incremental cost of battery packs.
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I predict reservation holders aren‘t going to pass on their Cybertruck purchase due to “only” a 350 mile range. Even Rivian doesn’t have their 400 mile range Max Pack available yet.
 

cvalue13

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my model Y with just barely 300 is enough for me. And this would save my wallet.
same for me

if they offer two models, and all else is equal (eg both have 4WS), a cheaper 350mi that is “immediately” deliverable is a no brainer for me
 

BayouCityBob

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I predict reservation holders aren‘t going to pass on their Cybertruck purchase due to “only” a 350 mile range. Even Rivian doesn’t have their 400 mile range Max Pack available yet.
If Tesla follows precedent, no one will have to "pass" on their purchase. They can simple defer ordering until their preferred model becomes available while holding their place in line.
 


BayouCityBob

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A 350 mile EPA CT is totally uncompetitive. Remember those are "Tesla" EPA miles using the 5 cycle super-optimistic versus everyone else's reported EPA numbers. A 350 mile CT = a ~300 mile F150 Lightning.
I should argue against myself, however, and say that one thing which may make a difference is charging speed. If the 350 CT has a ~70% recharge in 15 - 20 minutes rate (consistent with the discussion at the Semi reveal) then people would potentially make the trade.
 

KHappe

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What range do we really need?
If you tow on a regular basis, then you will probably want something more than the referenced 350mi range.

If you dont tow, why carry all of the extra battery weight. 350mi range makes sense.
 

BayouCityBob

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How is "price" not part of "competitive"?
I mean it is irrelevant if it cannot do the basic job a pickup needs to do. It will still find an audience, but it is uncompetitive as a full-sized pickup truck because it cannot do truck things like towing and carrying loads more than 150-180 miles (implication of the "350 Tesla miles" range number). It is like selling a chainsaw for a "really good price" but that cannot cut down trees. It is fine for cutting 2x4s and such but cannot cut trees. But look at the great price. If it does not meet the need of the basic function for its category, price is irrelevant.

How a Tesla 350 CT would work in real world:
EPA 350 - Unloaded 70 mph range in nice weather with no big hills - 320.
Realistic minimum stopping at 10% means usable at 290
Realistic maximum charge in most situation at 90% means usable at 260.

If you toss in 800 lbs of load or throw on a small trailer or add some significant terrain or weather, you will be stopping every 170 - 180 miles.
 

CyberGus

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I mean it is irrelevant if it cannot do the basic job a pickup needs to do. It will still find an audience, but it is uncompetitive as a full-sized pickup truck because it cannot do truck things like towing and carrying loads more than 150-180 miles (implication of the "350 Tesla miles" range number). It is like selling a chainsaw for a "really good price" but that cannot cut down trees. It is fine for cutting 2x4s and such but cannot cut trees. But look at the great price. If it does not meet the need of the basic function for its category, price is irrelevant.

How a Tesla 350 CT would work in real world:
EPA 350 - Unloaded 70 mph range in nice weather with no big hills - 320.
Realistic minimum stopping at 10% means usable at 290
Realistic maximum charge in most situation at 90% means usable at 260.

If you toss in 800 lbs of load or throw on a small trailer or add some significant terrain or weather, you will be stopping every 170 - 180 miles.
Your definition "full-sized pickup truck" is capricious and arbitrary ("towing and carrying loads more than 150-180 miles"). With less range, you stop to charge more often. The same thing is true for ICE trucks.

If a 350-mile CT reveals for $29k, Ford and Chevy will never sell another EV truck. Price matters more than anything.
 

BayouCityBob

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Your definition "full-sized pickup truck" is capricious and arbitrary ("towing and carrying loads more than 150-180 miles"). With less range, you stop to charge more often. The same thing is true for ICE trucks.

If a 350-mile CT reveals for $29k, Ford and Chevy will never sell another EV truck. Price matters more than anything.
Arbitrary? Yes. Capricious? Hardly.

And, of course, I used the phrase price is irrelevant to emphasize a point (not literally, price is always relevant). A 350 mile CT would struggle to be able to do the sort of things expected of vehicles in its category and it would be very weak versus its GM competition.
 


CyberGus

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Arbitrary? Yes. Capricious? Hardly.

And, of course, I used the phrase price is irrelevant to emphasize a point (not literally, price is always relevant). A 350 mile CT would struggle to be able to do the sort of things expected of vehicles in its category and it would be very weak versus its GM competition.
Let's do the math! I'll put a 500-mile Silverado up against a 350-mile Cybertruck.
  • Journey of 1000 miles
  • Range reduced by half due to towing
  • Silverado stops to charge 4x
  • Cybertruck stops to charge 7x
  • Charge sessions take ~20 minutes

In my 1000-mile journey, I've spent an extra 1 hour in the Cybertruck. Assuming that I make this trip once a week, and my time is valued at $50/hour, then in 1 year my lost time is worth $2600.

So if Cybertruck is $60k vs the Silverado $80k, I can keep this up for about 8 years and essentially break even.

Is more range better? Sure. Does less range mean it's not a "full size pickup"? Hardly.
 

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Your definition "full-sized pickup truck" is capricious and arbitrary ("towing and carrying loads more than 150-180 miles"). With less range, you stop to charge more often. The same thing is true for ICE trucks.

If a 350-mile CT reveals for $29k, Ford and Chevy will never sell another EV truck. Price matters more than anything.
The CT is supposed to compete with gas trucks not other evs.
“To accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy” doesn’t reference elimination other companies from participating. If all it does is go a little farther than one of the ev options, it becomes exactly what Jim Farley said it is.
 

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Before you go down any road of competitive or usable or real, ask yourself this; “When has Tesla made a huge marketing mistake?” And “How many times has Tesla mis-read the buyers?”

If you answer ”never” on both questions, then you have nothing to worry about. If you think they’ve done it occasionally to frequently, you can reread the question and debate whether or not the rumor is true.

I haven’t seen them take a step very far out of line yet. Now Ford, GM, Chrysler… Those are different stories.

YMMV
 

CyberGus

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The CT is supposed to compete with gas trucks not other evs.
“To accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy” doesn’t reference elimination other companies from participating. If all it does is go a little farther than one of the ev options, it becomes exactly what Jim Farley said it is.
Sure, just put those goalposts anywhere.

On the topic at hand of "Range" then Cybertruck is a 100% loser to all ICE trucks. Their charge time is zero.
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