Dusty

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At the 8 minute mark Corey says Sandy is in Italy.

Anyone think he's doing something gigapress related?
 

Regenshire

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I think the most interesting thing about this video (and it is all pretty interesting) is what they said about the weight of the pack being something like 1000 lbs less then many of the competitor packs they are looking at. It sounds like the weight advantage of the 4680 + structural pack design might be huge.
 

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At the 8 minute mark Corey says Sandy is in Italy.

Anyone think he's doing something gigapress related?
Sandy said specifically he was invited to IDRA. I don't think they'll let him do a gigapress teardown, tho :ROFLMAO:
 

firsttruck

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Sandy said specifically he was invited to IDRA. I don't think they'll let him do a gigapress teardown, tho :ROFLMAO:
Sandy would not need to do a teardown since IRDA is already going to do a teardown so they can ship the gigapress to Austin.

Sandy just needs to hang around for a week to watch :)
 


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I think the most interesting thing about this video (and it is all pretty interesting) is what they said about the weight of the pack being something like 1000 lbs less then many of the competitor packs they are looking at. It sounds like the weight advantage of the 4680 + structural pack design might be huge.
Literally this pack - with seats and console - is lighter than the square pack-as-cargo from the original Model S.

-Crissa
 

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The weight of the pack with seats and center console is 1198 lbs (543kg).

Some additional information was posted on the Reddit thread about this video from an employee at Munro that was interesting and adds some context:

MunroLiveStuart
To clarify, those heavier batteries were the Plaid and Rivian. Rivian alone is nearly 800kg. Our 2020 Model Y was 440kg.

Personally, I don't think that the seats, center console, and carpet are 100kg, so the battery pack itself is probably heavier than the old design. The big savings is in eliminating the load floor, both in terms of weight, raw material cost, and labor cost. Just being able to stand inside the vehicle and install the pillar trim rather than hang into the vehicle from outside, bend backward, and clip it in is a huge ergonomic advantage.

Tesla is playing the big picture game, seeking gains across the entire vehicle, rather than looking at single part savings.
Based on this, the pack itself may not be lighter then an equivalent Model Y pack. He says in other thread that there might not be a net weight savings, but there should be cost savings.

MunroLiveStuart
I think the big save is being able to get rid of the load floor in the body in white. It might not be a weight save at all in the end, but it's definitely a cost save at piece cost level, and a systemic level by eliminating part numbers, warranty claims and scrap due to those part numbers, etc.

One of my larger concerns as a mechanical engineering with a background in industrial engineering, and just being an ethical person, is always ergonomics. Being able to get inside the body and STAND UP to install the interior trim with a pushing motion, rather than crawl around in the body over pokey studs and brackets, or lean in door openings to install stuff with a pulling motion, makes a huge difference in workplace safety and stress injuries.
r/teslamotors Thread
/r/teslainvestorsclub Thread
 

Crissa

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Yes, Model 3 pack from 2018 was about 1100 pounds.

But... It didn't come with the floor pan and seats and console and controller in that calculation.

-Crissa
 

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I think the most interesting thing about this video (and it is all pretty interesting) is what they said about the weight of the pack being something like 1000 lbs less then many of the competitor packs they are looking at. It sounds like the weight advantage of the 4680 + structural pack design might be huge.
This alleviates a big fear I had with CT battery being so heavy that efficiency numbers would not be reasonable. IMO weight is a BFD.
 


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1.) I can't wait for the actual pack density numbers. If Tesla is sandbagging on the range for now we could see really good numbers here. Note the seats and carpet don't weigh much. While this may have manufacturing benefits the current apparent pack density is not that impressive.
2.) 40? bolts and a half dozen wire harness points. This gives me great hope that the battery pack may be upgradable in the future. I really hope the bolt pattern is able to stay consistent across the line up and the first couple years of production. With new tech and a market of ~2 million plus units someone will make a plug and play battery capable of 800 miles (400 while towing)

As a side note I think the news that the giga battery plants planned for Europe are being scaled back is interesting. Raw materials constraints for the next 5 years is a real problem. The threat of new tech making the plants obsolete is also a major concern. I would be terrified to go all in on a major plant.

The news that BMW is looking at 46xx format and that major investment in cylindrical batteries by LG/Panasonic etc. is encouraging for Tesla. Maybe the CT will end up with a double stacked 4660???
 

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Texas Tesla
China Texas is shipping NMC tooling to Texas Tesla so it can build Model Y with old NMC. Once Texas Tesla gets the NMC tooling, production will increase up to 1 Million Model Y per year.
Question?
Will Texas Tesla ever go back to the structural LFP battery pack if production is ramped up to 1 Million Model Y with old NMC tooling?
and
Texas Tesla if it can't fix its structural LFP battery pack production problems with the Model Y, how is that going to affect the EvTruck structural LFP battery pack that has no NMC tooling?
The likelihood that tesla won't have LFP structural solved before Texas ramps to 1 million is extremely low. LFP structural will probably be sorted by end of Q4 this year at worst.

To address your second concern; the cybertruck will use NMC for the tri/quad motor almost certainly (dual motor 50/50 imo). If they need to use NMC for all cybertruck builds for a while wouldn't shock me. They could also just build all tri/quad motor variants first until LFP structural is solved.

The cost savings of LFP and lack of cobalt are huge incentives for them to get this solved. They are already building 1/2 of their production with LFP, so clearly they are committed to the chemistry. I can see why you might be concerned, but I'm giving Tesla the benefit of the doubt that they will get it solved.
 

firsttruck

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....
The cost savings of LFP and lack of cobalt are huge incentives for them to get this solved. They are already building 1/2 of their production with LFP, so clearly they are committed to the chemistry. I can see why you might be concerned, but I'm giving Tesla the benefit of the doubt that they will get it solved.

LFP (LiFePO4) also has no nickel. Nickel is expensive too and there is a lot more nickel in a Tesla-Panasonic NCA or LG Chem NCM 811 battery than there is cobalt.

----------------------


Tesla is already using cobalt-free LFP batteries in half of its new cars produced
By Fred Lambert
Apr. 22nd 2022
https://electrek.co/2022/04/22/tesla-using-cobalt-free-lfp-batteries-in-half-new-cars-produced/


----------------------

What Batteries Are Tesla Using In Its Electric Cars? The company has quite a diversified strategy in terms of cell format, cathode chemistry and suppliers.
May 23, 2022
By: Mark Kane
https://insideevs.com/news/587455/batteries-tesla-using-electric-cars/

.....
Battery suppliers
Finally, the battery suppliers. Initially, and for a long time, Tesla's primary battery supplier happened to be Panasonic - 1865- and 2170-type cells with NCA chemistry. But later it was joined by LG Energy Solution (2170-type cells with NCM chemistry) and CATL (prismatic LFP chemistry). On top of that, Tesla has started its own battery production - the 4680-type cell with undisclosed chemistry (but most likely a high energy dense one). Tesla's 1 millionth cell was produced in California in January (an electric car might need up to about a 1,000 such cells).

In other words, we can see progressing diversification:

Panasonic:
Japan: 1865-type NCA (main use: Model S/Model X)
US (Gigafactory 1 in Nevada: 2170-type NCA (main use: Model 3/Model Y from California)

LG Chem's LG Energy Solution:
China: 2170-type NCM (main use: MIC Model 3/Model Y and MIG Model Y)

CATL:
China: prismatic LFP (main use: entry-level Model 3/Model Y globally)

Tesla:
California/Texas: 4680-type, undisclosed chemistry (main use: Made-in-Texas Model Y)


----------------------


Panasonic Automotive Battery Business Enters New Phase
Sep 22, 2021
https://news.panasonic.com/global/stories/2021/92945.html

.....
The energy density of the cells is not the only objective, as the company has to also improve sustainability (reduce the cobalt content in the cathode) and reduce costs.

Panasonic has progressively reduced the amount of cobalt in each battery to less than 5% through the use of alternative elements and surface treatment.


panasonic-Screenshot_20220709_124708.png


----------------------

Tesla's Batteries Will Contain A Lot Of Nickel In Foreseeable Future Elon Musk: "Please mine more nickel."
Jul 23, 2020
By: Mark Kane
https://insideevs.com/news/435490/tesla-batteries-nickel-foreseeable-future/

....
Tesla CEO Elon Musk recently "urged miners to produce more nickel" as the company is happily willing to secure long-term nickel suppliers for battery production. Nickel is one of the key ingredients of the cathode of lithium-ion cells, especially in higher-energy dense chemistries with low cobalt content (like the Tesla-Panasonic NCA or LG Chem NCM 811).

----------------------


Explainer: Costs of nickel and cobalt used in electric vehicle batteries By Pratima Desai
3 feb 2022
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...t-used-electric-vehicle-batteries-2022-02-03/

.....
Moves to include more nickel to boost energy density and extend driving range initially saw a shift to 5-3-2 and 6-2-2. Many automakers are now looking at 8-1-1.

LG Energy Solution (373220.KS) is supplying batteries with cathodes containing 90% nickel to Tesla.

----------------------


Tesla will change the type of battery cells it uses in all its standard-range cars
Published Wed, Oct 20 2021
Michael Wayland
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batteries-in-all-standard-range-cars.html

----------------------

 
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