500+ mile EV truck

[SpaceYooper]

Who will come to market first?
When?

I'm not talking about the CT range extender unless it can be easily removed and plugged in by the owner.

The Silverado WT4 is at 450 now.

RAM is now saying 2026 for their 500 mile version.

No idea what Ford is planing for their gen2 Lightning.

I'm still holding out for this version from one of the big 3 or the CT. I can probably wait 2 more years. After that it will be really hard with my truck having well over 150k miles on it.

I'm also not sure how long Tesla will let me hold onto my 500+ mile range, CT3, first 24 hr reservation. I'm sure they aren't in a rush to kick people off yet, but a year or 2 from now?

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[Wraven]

You might want to experience an EV before basing your entire purchase on range, a few questions from an experienced EV owner comes to mind that might be worth pondering:

1. What kind of charging is available? (Should be NACS, if not this is a red flag IMO)
2. The larger the battery pack the longer it will take to charge (how long?)
3. What are the charging curves? (related to #2 but matters in a very different way for long range trips)

 

[Jager]

A better question might be when will battery tech improve to the point where a 500-mile pack can be implemented without the egregious cost and weight penalties such a pack exacts today.

A big part of the delay in the Cybertruck was because the the 4680 cell energy density anticipated at the CT reveal in Nov 2019, and publicly announced at Battery day ten months later, failed to be achieved. Energy densities that Tesla believed in 2019 would be operational by 2021 have not, even to this day, been achieved.

The engineering to shoehorn a bunch of cells into a vehicle so as to achieve 400-500+ miles range is not particularly difficult. The EV Hummer and Chevy Silverado are examples.

But the cost and weight penalties of such a brute force approach are abysmal.

 

[SpaceYooper]

A better question might be when will battery tech improve to the point where a 500-mile pack can be implemented without the egregious cost and weight penalties such a pack exacts today.

I agree, that is a better question. What is the answer? The weight is a concern for me. Even the current weight of the CT is concerning. Where I hunt we have guys slide off and roll downhill almost every winter. The added weight means sinking deeper in the mud holes or more inertia sliding on snow, ice, and slush.

A big part of the delay in the Cybertruck was because the the 4680 cell energy density anticipated at the CT reveal in Nov 2019, and publicly announced at Battery day ten months later, failed to be achieved. Energy densities that Tesla believed in 2019 would be operational by 2021 have not, even to this day, been achieved.

Agreed. So will it take solid state tech to get there?

The engineering to shoehorn a bunch of cells into a vehicle so as to achieve 400-500+ miles range is not particularly difficult. The EV Hummer and Chevy Silverado are examples.

I agree

But the cost and weight penalties of such a brute force approach are abysmal.

I agree

 

[SpaceYooper]

You might want to experience an EV before basing your entire purchase on range, a few questions from an experienced EV owner comes to mind that might be worth pondering:

I'm not basing my entire purchase on this singular concern. It's just the final hurdle.

1. What kind of charging is available? (Should be NACS, if not this is a red flag IMO)

Not much charging is conveniently available for the use case of needing 500 miles of range.

2. The larger the battery pack the longer it will take to charge (how long?)

True when going from empty to full, but maybe not as true when comparing charge time to add... let's say 300 miles when the battery is at 20%.

3. What are the charging curves? (related to #2 but matters in a very different way for long-range trips)

I agree the curve matters. But it's not long-range trips I need it for. It's week-long hunting trips lacking convenient charging.

 

[Woodrick]

A better question might be when will battery tech improve to the point where a 500-mile pack can be implemented without the egregious cost and weight penalties such a pack exacts today.

A big part of the delay in the Cybertruck was because the the 4680 cell energy density anticipated at the CT reveal in Nov 2019, and publicly announced at Battery day ten months later, failed to be achieved. Energy densities that Tesla believed in 2019 would be operational by 2021 have not, even to this day, been achieved.

The engineering to shoehorn a bunch of cells into a vehicle so as to achieve 400-500+ miles range is not particularly difficult. The EV Hummer and Chevy Silverado are examples.

But the cost and weight penalties of such a brute force approach are abysmal.

I think that battery prices are dropping in neighborhood of 10%-15% per year, so that's 5 years to half the price of today then double the capacity.

Weight is another issue. There are much bigger issues with power densities and costs when it comes to lighter batteries.

The aviation industry tends to be pushing that envelope, but they are definitely seeing the $$$.

Dis you know that your Model 3 LR AWD has a demonstrated range of about 600 miles? The Model 3 LR RWD has exceeded 600 miles.

500 mile range is overrated and misunderstood in my book.

 

[Jager]

I agree, that is a better question. What is the answer? The weight is a concern for me. Even the current weight of the CT is concerning. Where I hunt we have guys slide off and roll downhill almost every winter. The added weight means sinking deeper in the mud holes or more inertia sliding on snow, ice, and slush.


Agreed. So will it take solid state tech to get there?

Hunting and fishing in remote areas is one of my use cases, as well. And for that, EV's still have some challenges. People like to say that the Supercharger network is good enough that range doesn't matter. And that's true, as long as you stay near the interstate network. But leave that warren of well-traveled roads and the Supercharger network suddenly has lots of holes.

I don't know what battery tech will ultimately emerge to solve that problem. I'm not one of those people who think that solid state tech is necessarily it. But battery tech will improve. The EV's of the future will be lighter, less expensive, and will have greater range.

So why not wait?

Because EV's today are astonishing. I'm an old motohead, with a lifelong interest in ICE vehicles. I wrote for one of the motorcycle magazines. I've put over a million miles in ICE trucks (they've been my daily driver most my life), another million miles in ICE cars, and another half-million miles on two wheels. It's from that perspective that I say that the Tesla variety of EV's is beyond measure. Today. I still pinch myself that the average person can enjoy the performance of such a vehicle.

It's like sex. Most of us, once we first took a bite from that apple, could never go back. You couldn't not put up with whatever aggravations came with it, in order to enjoy it again and again.

Whatever challenges the Cybertruck might pose for its owners will pale compared to the sheer delight woven into its DNA.

 

[Woodrick]

Hunting and fishing in remote areas is one of my use cases, as well. And for that, EV's still have some challenges. People like to say that the Supercharger network is good enough that range doesn't matter. And that's true, as long as you stay near the interstate network. But leave that warren of well-traveled roads and the Supercharger network suddenly has lots of holes.

I don't know what battery tech will ultimately emerge to solve that problem. I'm not one of those people who think that solid state tech is necessarily it. But battery tech will improve. The EV's of the future will be lighter, less expensive, and will have greater range.

So why not wait?

Because EV's today are astonishing. I'm an old motohead, with a lifelong interest in ICE vehicles. I wrote for one of the motorcycle magazines. I've put over a million miles in ICE trucks (they've been my daily driver most my life), another million miles in ICE cars, and another half-million miles on two wheels. It's from that perspective that I say that the Tesla variety of EV's is beyond measure. Today. I still pinch myself that the average person can enjoy the performance of such a vehicle.

It's like sex. Most of us, once we first took a bite from that apple, could never go back. You couldn't not put up with whatever aggravations came with it, in order to enjoy it again and again.

Whatever challenges the Cybertruck might pose for its owners will pale compared to the sheer delight woven into its DNA.

But the Supercharger network is far from your only option. Even if it is a slow J-1772, you only need enough to make it the nearest DCFC.

The solution is relatively easy, more charging locations. Luckily the US grid goes just about everywhere and even if not capable of DCFS, it can support L2.
And beyond that, there are already a few solar solutions.

And think about these ubiquitous gas stations out there and the EPA issues with those tanks in the ground.

 

[gooshjkc]

Comparing the CT to other trucks are like apples and oranges. All of the GM trucks come with 200+ kWh batteries. Go ahead and put that into a CT and I can assure it will get 500+ miles. I think Tesla did this on purpose. Most people will not use CT as what trucks are meant to use them for. Maybe light duties, but nothing close to what heavy duties like what a F250 would do. There will be updates to the software to help increase the efficiency to maybe bring an extra 20+ miles but that’s it. Furthermore, battery tech is getting better and better per year. So, wait till then.

 

[pricedm]

OP: I get the desire for a 500 mile range EV. It is basically because charging opportunities in rural USA are thin to none.

For most of my road trips, the 300 mile range of the Tesla Model Y is sufficient....because like gas stations for ICEmobile, there are numerous DC fast and AC charging opportunities...as long as I am close to an interstate or major highway.

But my annual Middle Fork Salmon rafting trip will be difficult to do using an electric vehicle. Last EV level 2 charger is in Ketchum, ID. From there, I pass a few RV campgrounds in Stanley, ID. The drive to Boundary Creek is dirt and a significant elevation change. I typically hire a company to shuttle my vehicle to Cache Bar, the end of the river trip 7 or 8 days later. From Cache Bar, my next charging opportunity is a Tesla "Destination" charger at the Stagecoach Inn (hotel) in Salmon, ID.

Trip spans 385 miles, dirt roads, significant elevation change, hired driver to drive my vehicle 220 miles--no public charging along the route. From the time I last charge my vehicle to when I see it again is 8 or 9 days and 260 miles the vehicle will be driven, including 20 miles dirt road with 2k vertical gain.

At this point I have to either rely on borrowing a family ICE truck, or get really creative with the company moving my vehicle and have them store it at their location in Salmon, ID (201 miles, 20 dirt with 2,000 vertical climb) and plug it into a 120v outlet for the week. Neither are great options and rely on someone else to enable me to drive an electric vehicle.

 

[Broski]

OP: I get the desire for a 500 mile range EV. It is basically because charging opportunities in rural USA are thin to none.

For most of my road trips, the 300 mile range of the Tesla Model Y is sufficient....because like gas stations for ICEmobile, there are numerous DC fast and AC charging opportunities...as long as I am close to an interstate or major highway.

But my annual Middle Fork Salmon rafting trip will be difficult to do using an electric vehicle. Last EV level 2 charger is in Ketchum, ID. From there, I pass a few RV campgrounds in Stanley, ID. The drive to Boundary Creek is dirt and a significant elevation change. I typically hire a company to shuttle my vehicle to Cache Bar, the end of the river trip 7 or 8 days later. From Cache Bar, my next charging opportunity is a Tesla "Destination" charger at the Stagecoach Inn (hotel) in Salmon, ID.

Trip spans 385 miles, dirt roads, significant elevation change, hired driver to drive my vehicle 220 miles--no public charging along the route. From the time I last charge my vehicle to when I see it again is 8 or 9 days and 260 miles the vehicle will be driven, including 20 miles dirt road with 2k vertical gain.

At this point I have to either rely on borrowing a family ICE truck, or get really creative with the company moving my vehicle and have them store it at their location in Salmon, ID (201 miles, 20 dirt with 2,000 vertical climb) and plug it into a 120v outlet for the week. Neither are great options and rely on someone else to enable me to drive an electric vehicle.

Yep. That’s a tough case for EV.
I don3 trips a year between North Seattle and Tahoe. Can do it as a straight 13hr shot in ICE, the additional 3rd of charge means I have to get a hotel.
These are outliers though. A lot of people tow distances for vacation outings and work. That’s the biggest trade off.

 

[Woodrick]

OP: I get the desire for a 500 mile range EV. It is basically because charging opportunities in rural USA are thin to none.

For most of my road trips, the 300 mile range of the Tesla Model Y is sufficient....because like gas stations for ICEmobile, there are numerous DC fast and AC charging opportunities...as long as I am close to an interstate or major highway.

But my annual Middle Fork Salmon rafting trip will be difficult to do using an electric vehicle. Last EV level 2 charger is in Ketchum, ID. From there, I pass a few RV campgrounds in Stanley, ID. The drive to Boundary Creek is dirt and a significant elevation change. I typically hire a company to shuttle my vehicle to Cache Bar, the end of the river trip 7 or 8 days later. From Cache Bar, my next charging opportunity is a Tesla "Destination" charger at the Stagecoach Inn (hotel) in Salmon, ID.

Trip spans 385 miles, dirt roads, significant elevation change, hired driver to drive my vehicle 220 miles--no public charging along the route. From the time I last charge my vehicle to when I see it again is 8 or 9 days and 260 miles the vehicle will be driven, including 20 miles dirt road with 2k vertical gain.

At this point I have to either rely on borrowing a family ICE truck, or get really creative with the company moving my vehicle and have them store it at their location in Salmon, ID (201 miles, 20 dirt with 2,000 vertical climb) and plug it into a 120v outlet for the week. Neither are great options and rely on someone else to enable me to drive an electric vehicle.

Interesting.

I see charging opportunities in Challis and multiple opportunities in Stanley. It appears that you may not have NEMA 14-50 plugs enabled.

 

[pricedm]

Interesting.

I see charging opportunities in Challis and multiple opportunities in Stanley. It appears that you may not have NEMA 14-50 plugs enabled.

Yes, that's the "a few RV campgrounds in Stanley, ID" I mention. I don't really want to depend on RV parks as that frequently requires an overnight stay. Some are not allowing EV charging, like this one I wanted to stay at (on a different trip): https://ranchosedona.com/park-rules-and-policies/

My point is relying on non-public charging for a 400 mile drive is less than idea.

 

[Crissa]

OP: I get the desire for a 500 mile range EV. It is basically because charging opportunities in rural USA are thin to none.

For most of my road trips, the 300 mile range of the Tesla Model Y is sufficient....because like gas stations for ICEmobile, there are numerous DC fast and AC charging opportunities...as long as I am close to an interstate or major highway.

But my annual Middle Fork Salmon rafting trip will be difficult to do using an electric vehicle. Last EV level 2 charger is in Ketchum, ID. From there, I pass a few RV campgrounds in Stanley, ID. The drive to Boundary Creek is dirt and a significant elevation change. I typically hire a company to shuttle my vehicle to Cache Bar, the end of the river trip 7 or 8 days later. From Cache Bar, my next charging opportunity is a Tesla "Destination" charger at the Stagecoach Inn (hotel) in Salmon, ID.

Trip spans 385 miles, dirt roads, significant elevation change, hired driver to drive my vehicle 220 miles--no public charging along the route. From the time I last charge my vehicle to when I see it again is 8 or 9 days and 260 miles the vehicle will be driven, including 20 miles dirt road with 2k vertical gain.

At this point I have to either rely on borrowing a family ICE truck, or get really creative with the company moving my vehicle and have them store it at their location in Salmon, ID (201 miles, 20 dirt with 2,000 vertical climb) and plug it into a 120v outlet for the week. Neither are great options and rely on someone else to enable me to drive an electric vehicle.

You have to find a town with three thousand people to find a place you can't charge?

There are chargers in Salmon, btw. Your mileage is bullshit.

Someone doesn't let you charge? Don't give them your money. Let them rot in the past.

-Crissa

 

[LexusCyber]

Hunting and fishing in remote areas is one of my use cases, as well. And for that, EV's still have some challenges. People like to say that the Supercharger network is good enough that range doesn't matter. And that's true, as long as you stay near the interstate network. But leave that warren of well-traveled roads and the Supercharger network suddenly has lots of holes.

I don't know what battery tech will ultimately emerge to solve that problem. I'm not one of those people who think that solid state tech is necessarily it. But battery tech will improve. The EV's of the future will be lighter, less expensive, and will have greater range.

So why not wait?

Because EV's today are astonishing. I'm an old motohead, with a lifelong interest in ICE vehicles. I wrote for one of the motorcycle magazines. I've put over a million miles in ICE trucks (they've been my daily driver most my life), another million miles in ICE cars, and another half-million miles on two wheels. It's from that perspective that I say that the Tesla variety of EV's is beyond measure. Today. I still pinch myself that the average person can enjoy the performance of such a vehicle.

It's like sex. Most of us, once we first took a bite from that apple, could never go back. You couldn't not put up with whatever aggravations came with it, in order to enjoy it again and again.

Whatever challenges the Cybertruck might pose for its owners will pale compared to the sheer delight woven into its DNA.

building on your analogy above.... you have to wait until you can find/get the true love ....

my 2 cents: CT has so much potential in the next few years regardless of what the competition is doing.

My Pep Talk: wait 2years to get 2x value (as compared with CT cost/value today)...

I know it is all subjective but feel free to use this or help us find something better ( positive I mean )

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