A More Useful Frunk

firsttruck

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You’re preaching to the choir here, of course. I was just saying that the one feature that seemed nice was the frunk, not that I think it is better. I agree with your synopsis.
Yes, I am sure you and other readers here understand.

The drain and outlets are nice features and I hope Cybertruck has them too.
A bigger frunk is OK up to to a point. The Ford PU having a bigger frunk than the Cybertruck is OK too.
The problem is having it so so so big and boxy.

Ford made NO significant attempt at aero at all.

2019 Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x2 has Cd of 0.357.

Ford had a chance to educate the buying public and Ford passed.

But this is brick wall frunk is not a harmless decoration. There is a reason the Cybertruck has an aero shape. If the brick wall frunk was driven around town at 15-30 mph in stop & go city type driving the effect would be minimal.

But these trucks are going to be doing serious highway miles at 70-75 mph. At those speeds aero effects are significant.

The people who consider buying this Ford PU should be informed of what the hidden cost will be. Maybe it is not worth it to them. Since a significant of our electricity still comes from fossil fuels it also affect everybody.

There should be a measurable difference.
$1,000s of real $ are going to be wasted.

These super high hoods/frunks are also a safety issue. Driver can not see small people or low objects directly in front of them. People are being injured.

I am hoping we can calculate some reasonable numbers for comparison.
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Bill906

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And geepers, @Bill906, I use about 1/4 the power you do. (~23kWh/day) And we run an entertainment system and one to four workstations all day. And my EV. And half our heat is electric!

In the last year my highest monthly electric usage was 668kWh in July of 2020. I was working from home and I tend to keep my house on the cool side.
668kWh / 31 days = 21.6 kWh/day
If a model 3 has 60-75kWh of energy in it, it can power my house for 3 days during the month I used the most energy.
My lowest electricity usage was October 2020 with 358kWh. The model 3 could power close to a week of that month.
@Crissa I'm not sure I follow.
 

jerhenderson

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there
F-150 “Lightning” energizes FORD loyalists, appeals to working tradesmen and speaks to their real dilemma when it comes to having power - enough of it.

Everything at that FORD EV truck reveal stayed on those points from badging the truck “Lightning”, frickin’ humongous frunk big enough for not one but TWO sets of “golf clubs“ and power to spare for not only work but power for an entire house — for days! Yeah, guys are going camping with this thing…

FORD worked it out, got on message and laid down a well thought out platform on which to loft its #1 vehicle. Elon was humble and right to acknowledge their entry. Its a compelling 80-20 amalgam. FORD knows its customer, the market for pickup trucks and stuck to what FORD does

the frunk is that big because they kept the ginormous engine bay size for the 'traditional' truck front end. that won't change my CT order.
 

m.delmed129

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This may change with the CT, but I have used my frunk a total of 5 times, and only one of them was out of necessity. It’s not as convenient when you’re pulling front end into spaces, or your garage to then fetch something out of the frunk.

Obviously I get the “job site”, or parking outdoors instead of in the garage. My main point is, you’ll likely use the frunk less than you imagined. Compartmentalization and restrictive movement is about the only benefit I see compared to just putting it in the vehicle or vault.
 

Rthardison

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Interesting take. I wonder what a comparative analysis between all the efficiencies of each would show? Given the total efficiencies, I wonder what the percentage difference is kwh/mile is. It could be as little as 5% or much, much more... :unsure:. This would effect 5 year total cost of ownership, might even make the Ford fans, esp. working trucks, wait on the initial offering. Maybe NXT garage could do another video.
I expect the CT to use up to 450 wh/mi depending on tires. I estimate the F-150 will use 550-600 wh/mi. The biggest disappointment for me with the F-150 is that it is a converted ICE. This means poor efficiency, less efficient use of space, and less than ideal driving dynamics.
 

fritter63

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These super high hoods/frunks are also a safety issue. Driver can not see small people or low objects directly in front of them. People are being injured.
Although they make Deer strikes a lot safer! (for the driver of the truck)
 

Firetruck41

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These super high hoods/frunks are also a safety issue. Driver can not see small people or low objects directly in front of them. People are being injured.
In 25 years of driving SUVs and trucks with "high hoods" I have yet to hit a pedestrian or other vehicle for that matter. Most of my co workers have trucks as well and have never heard of them hitting a pedestrian. I can only remember responding to one full size pickup vs pedestrian accident scene, though that was a result of the predestrian crossing a dark street no where near a crosswalk, where traffic speeds were 40mph+. Been on a bunch of other vehicle vs predestrian calls though.

Perhaps high hoods are not a huge cause of accidents. 😀
 

Crissa

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@Crissa I'm not sure I follow.
Sorry, meant @ajdelange https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/a-more-useful-frunk.3131/post-51286

In 25 years of ...
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal
You one point of data is probably also the Texas sharpshooter fallacy, being as you're reaching back into the past and wouldn't make this argument had you hit someone.

It's a straight up fact that a raised hood gives you a larger blind spot, and that will result in more accidents and more deaths. If not you, someone else.

The biggest disappointment for me with the F-150 is that it is a converted ICE. This means poor efficiency, less efficient use of space, and less than ideal driving dynamics.
The Lightning is not using a converted ICE body. It shares the outer shape, but basically nothing else. They say it has the most rigid frame and lightest and most aerodynamic body they have made to date. (Which while probably true, is not such a great feat. It is over three tons.)

-Crissa
 
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DarinCT

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I expect the CT to use up to 450 wh/mi depending on tires. I estimate the F-150 will use 550-600 wh/mi. The biggest disappointment for me with the F-150 is that it is a converted ICE. This means poor efficiency, less efficient use of space, and less than ideal driving dynamics.
I'd like to challenge that presumption with the Mach-e as evidence. It's got the Mustang moniker but it's not a sports car but rather a CUV. It's not engineered like any other Ford vehicle ( ). We're Tesla fans here, I get that Ford bashing is kind of easy...because they make it easy. Tesla LG cells were copied by SK. Tesla hasn't moved into its latest generation of cell. While Ford may not be able to make the volume, they probably are pretty close on the cell efficiency.

Their use of space is a big question mark. Maybe the frunk gets used all the time with worse aerodynamics. That doesn't make sense to me, but it may be the justification for others to buy Ford. Ford has improved it's truck construction, driving, and engineering over the decades. Tesla has never made a truck before. My model 3 ride experience is noisy. A CyberTruck may ride more like stiff Jeep CJ or like a luxury vehicle of the year Dodge Ram (cars.com).

There doesn't seem to be anything about the F-150 Lightning that is F-150 yet except marketing and exterior design concepts. That makes sense if you're trying to convert a bunch of Ford-blue die hards.

Maybe it's an ICE conversion and a crappy one at that. I'd actually be a little sad if that was true. Maybe it's a clean slate that they try to push as evolutionary a result as they can like the Mach-e. That would be understandable, even commendable. Until they actually show up in the world, I'm going to reserve judgement.
 

firsttruck

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Although they make Deer strikes a lot safer! (for the driver of the truck)
Maybe not.

The Cybertruck has a more sloped windshield and the strong armor glass.
The deer might get "relatively" more safely swept off their feet and slide up and over the Cybertruck.
With the Ford PU the deer is smashed like a bug.

Tesla might have even tested this.
 

SSonnentag

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While I think the Ford and Hummer made great decisions when they included the grill into the frunk lid, I'm not so sure the Cybertruck would benefit so much due to its sloping front end. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn the Cybertruck's frunk lid height is pretty near the same distance off the ground as the Ford and GM offerings when at the low suspension setting.

Mock-up photo, but might be useful for some perspective.
images.jpg
 
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Bluechip506

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One of our other cars is a Miata. In a Miata forum someone posted a pic from the interior of a pickup from the drivers point of view, sitting at a light. You only see clear road ahead. But in the screen view from the front mounted camera is the back end of a Miata. I wish I could find the pic. It was eye opening from both points of view.
 

firsttruck

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I'd like to challenge that presumption with the Mach-e as evidence. It's got the Mustang moniker but it's not a sports car but rather a CUV. It's not engineered like any other Ford vehicle ( ). We're Tesla fans here, I get that Ford bashing is kind of easy...because they make it easy. Tesla LG cells were copied by SK. Tesla hasn't moved into its latest generation of cell. While Ford may not be able to make the volume, they probably are pretty close on the cell efficiency.
Ford has more than a getting volume problem.

SK Innovation has already been found to have stolen LG Chem battery technologies and barely escaped real punishment.

Tesla might be real keen to watch SK Innovation for any use of Tesla 4680 related tech.

So where is SK Innovation going to get significant next generation tech.

Their use of space is a big question mark. Maybe the frunk gets used all the time with worse aerodynamics. That doesn't make sense to me, but it may be the justification for others to buy Ford. Ford has improved it's truck construction, driving, and engineering over the decades. Tesla has never made a truck before. My model 3 ride experience is noisy. A CyberTruck may ride more like stiff Jeep CJ or like a luxury vehicle of the year Dodge Ram (cars.com).

There doesn't seem to be anything about the F-150 Lightning that is F-150 yet except marketing and exterior design concepts. That makes sense if you're trying to convert a bunch of Ford-blue die hards.

Maybe it's an ICE conversion and a crappy one at that. I'd actually be a little sad if that was true. Maybe it's a clean slate that they try to push as evolutionary a result as they can like the Mach-e. That would be understandable, even commendable. Until they actually show up in the world, I'm going to reserve judgement.
If you are doing a "clean slate" EV and you did essentially nothing about the non-aero brick wall shape you are doing something wrong.

2019 Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x2 has Cd of 0.357.
Stellantis North America (RAM Trucks, PSA Group, Fiat Chrysler) Press Kit: 2019 Ram 1500
https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=18753&mid=745


Even some past Ford ICE F series body shapes look more aerodynamic

1998 F-250 XL
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:'97-'98_Ford_F-250_XL_Regular_Cab.JPG
 
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