Cybertruck Deliveries Will 'Far Exceed' Wall Street Estimates (says Gary Black, founder of Future Fund)

[Rutrow]

California specifically has laws against ... not doing your best to carry through.

-Crissa

I'd need to see the text of that law to believe it.

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[Crissa]

Please, you cannot on one hand admit you don't know what the legal standard is in this exact situation, and yet...

Please, I totally can. I don't need to know the exact ruling to know something has a level of legal obligation any more than I need to know what legal level of murder the intentional death of another is.

I'd need to see the text of that law to believe it.

https://www.yashlaw.com/false-pricing-or-overcharging.html

There's a bunch of laws on this, covering even shelf prices, which is why I know it exists, as I was working retail when it passed.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

Please, I totally can. I don't need to know the exact ruling to know something has a level of legal obligation any more than I need to know what legal level of murder the intentional death of another is.


https://www.yashlaw.com/false-pricing-or-overcharging.html

There's a bunch of laws on this, covering even shelf prices, which is why I know it exists, as I was working retail when it passed.

-Crissa

My original claim, that you took exception to, was that Tesla is not legally obligated to sell the Cybertrucks for the prices announced in November 2019.

And that is true, otherwise we wouldn't be playing guessing games regarding what the final retail price will be, we would be saying, "If Tesla does not maintain the original pricing, we will have a great class action lawsuit on our hands".

But, alas, Tesla is not legally obligated to maintain original pricing, and we all knew it when we placed our $100 deposits (except for those who didn't bother to read the terms of the deposit). The agreement didn't say the pricing could change under specific conditions, it said (direct quote),

Pre-Order Price, Taxes and Official Fees. The pre-order price of the Vehicle will be confirmed in your Vehicle Configuration and Final Price Sheet. As you may have only configured part of your Vehicle, any pre-order price provided to you in advance of the Final Price Sheet is only being offered to you as an estimate and is subject to change.

Further, it's important to recognize that the pre-order agreement is not a purchase agreement- as explained here:

Pre-Order Process; Cancellation; Changes. After you submit your completed pre-order and the options you selected become available in production, we will invite you to complete the configuration of your Vehicle. We will then issue you the Vehicle Configuration and Final Price Sheet based on the base price of the model and any options included or that you select. Your Pre-Order Payment covers the cost of these activities and other processing costs and is not a deposit for the Vehicle. Until your Vehicle is delivered to you, you may cancel your pre-order at any time, in which case you will receive a full refund of your Pre-Order Payment. Until your final configuration is matched to a vehicle, you may make changes to your Vehicle Configuration.

The reason this does not legally obligate Tesla to maintain the estimated pricing is because it is not an order for a product, it's a pre-order and the potential customer is allowed to cancel at any time before they complete the final configuration of their vehicle and recieve a full refund. After a customer completes the final configuration of their vehicle it will become an order, at which point Tesla would be subject to certain legal obligations to honor the price provided. In reality, they could still change their mind and refund your deposit, but that may incur some additional legal obligations because it was no longer a pre-order.

The kind of laws (obligations) you are speaking of would not be triggered unless the pre-order was actually an order for a product, and the purchase/sale agreement is agreed to (probably with the addition of a larger deposit). It is at that point that the pre-order turns into an order and Tesla would have certain legal obligations with respect to maintaining the price quote.

 

[jerhenderson]

Not to mention the 200,000,000 they have held on to and made interest off of for 4 years. It could look really bad if they priced the truck where it is unreachable for most of us and way out of line with what was represented to those 2 million people that gave that 100 dollars for the right to order.

That would be a argument lawyers would gladly build a class action case around.

you know what they call a lawyer at the bottom of the ocean ?

 

[Crissa]

My original claim, that you took exception to, was that Tesla is not legally obligated to sell the Cybertrucks for the prices announced in November 2019.

And that is true, otherwise ...

It's true, in that, they're not wedded to the exact price.

However, if they raise the price by as much as people are suggesting, they would be legally suspect. And possibly face SEC sanctions, state criminal investigations, it would vary.

That's why I don't know whether it's a reasonable obligation or what, there are various levels of legal obligations in common law, not to mention statutes about offering and advertising for products.

Every time you say they have no legal obligation you're basically saying that you don't understand that legal obligations come in all sizes and strictnesses. 'No obligation' legally means the complete absence of obligation, which would be, as I've pointed out, untrue.

-Crissa

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