Cybertruck is designed to be built

[Ogre]

Seems like a lot of folks have forgotten this little fact, but Musk was thoughtful enough to remind us that the Cybertruck is indeed a product designed to be manufactured cheaply.

Lots of comparisons to the Model X and Model S, and rhetorical questions like “How can they produce the tri motor Cybertruck for $69k when the Model S Plaid is $120k?”

Simple…. It’s simple. Tesla has been reducing manufacturing complexity every step of the way. The Model 3 is significantly easier to manufacture than the Model S. The Fremont Model Y is significantly easier to manufacture than the Model 3. The Austin Model Y is much easier to manufacture than the Fremont Y… the Cybertruck is going to be easier yet.

Raw materials are less than half of the cost of a vehicle. The cost of turning that pile of materials into a useful thing is a huge piece and Tesla has been driving that price down at every juncture.

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[HaulingAss]

A little bird told me that once Cybertruck hits peoples driveway one thing will gradually become clear:

Legacy truck makers have been ripping us off for many years! Not only are the profit margins quite high on most trucks, they cost far too much to build because the manufacturers are very inefficient at building vehicles. The Cybertruck is going to offer tremendous value!

Legacy auto is scared pale that people will stop buying new ICE trucks because they need those high margin sales to remain a going concern. That's why some people have been trying to convince truck buyers the Cybertruck will be prohibitively expensive - because legacy truck makers don't want truck buyers to hold off on their next truck purchase because they are waiting for a Cybertruck. They want truck buyers to say, "Oh, snap, Cybertruck is probably going to be over $100K, I can't afford that anyway, I might as well buy that shiny new truck I saw last week for $50K.

 

[rr6013]

I read Elon’s (tweet I think), which struck me. The open narrative struck how appliance Tesla made Cybertruck manufacture - read cheap. The backhand hit reminded Cybertruck is ¾ ton in F-150 cross-dress, going to challege $70—110k USD pickups and SUV 4x4 segments. Then I picked my enthusiasm back up and the chin dropped on the floor, still I’m confused CT MSRP.

 

[JBee]

ICE truck manufacturers make more from spares than truck sales. This has been Teslas #1 problem since day 1. EM says this all the time.

Thats why CT needed to be a quantum shift in manufacturering cost reduction to work.

 

[CyberGus]

See Munro's teardown of the Rivian, where they found 125 threaded fasteners in just one door! That's a ludicrous amount of labor and small parts.

 

[Ogre]

Just to expand on this a bit.

Musk said outright on the earnings call cheaper more efficient manufacturing is on the way.

And I should say it's also lighter, cheaper, and has superior noise vibration harshness. So it's good on every level. But this journey is not over. We'll bring another level of simplicity and manufacturing improvements with Cybertruck and future products that we're not quite ready to talk about now but I think will be very exciting to unveil in the future.

 

[fritter63]

We'll bring another level of simplicity and manufacturing improvements with Cybertruck and future products that we're not quite ready to talk about now but I think will be very exciting to unveil in the future.

Hoping that's a line of "Cyber" vehicles that are more "form follows function" and tough as hell, long life compared to painted shaped bodies, etc.

Time to break the 4 year obsolescence pattern?

 

[rr6013]

ICE truck manufacturers make more from spares than truck sales. This has been Teslas #1 problem since day 1. EM says this all the time.

Thats why CT needed to be a quantum shift in manufacturering cost reduction to work.

That strawman spare parts/lost profit center argument has nothing to do with manufacture cost of production. Simple comparison with EV cost and disposable income shows Tesla motivation to sell a product people can afford.
The fallacy being perpetrated on an unsuspecting public is that EV’s don’t need parts, run forever and don’t breakdown. Maintenance for EV’s is delayed compared to ICE but mileage, wear and tear remain costly. Crash a Tesla thru no fault of your own then compare costs to ICE, not to mention availability.
ICE mfgrs do make money on parts. All mfgrs required by law to supply spares for 8yrs. That isn’t factored into truck pricing. Importantly, in ICE comparison DEALERS take profits on pickups, markup, trade-in and financing. So mfgrs have built profit around parts, crate motor spares and OEM Performance parts.
Cybertruck uniquely sells Performance parts STD equipped, direct-to-customer/no middleman no markup no add-on and specs its vehicle with 30x hardened S.S. structure to outlast ICE by large margin.
Elon’s Giga manufacture rewards Tesla with 30% margins of profit compared with ICE 14%. Parts, spares, Performance upgrades and Tesla conversion kits will be huge profit center after all Teslas hatch first. Chicken or egg? Elon’s not counting his Teslas until all his eggs have hatched.
The Teslas will come back to roost and owners will demand OEM Tesla parts, Tesla spares and HUGE will be upgrades and conversions.

 

[JBee]

That strawman spare parts/lost profit center argument has nothing to do with manufacture cost of production.

Well it does if cost of production exceeds the purchase price?

It's not at all uncommon for manufactures to produce cars at a loss until manufacturing efficiency and numbers turn that loss into a profit. In fact every manufacture has that when they made their first car, after spending billions on capex for the production line. EV manufacturers are not immune to this, it's just a manufacturing ramp that is expressed in numbers which gets better over time.

The argument is that ICE do it more intensively because they can recoup costs later on through part sales over the total life time of the product. That means more vehicle sales, and therefore also more part sales. For EV's that's much harder to do because as you say there are less maintenance/failure parts in the first place, so more vehicles doesn't equate to a lot more parts to recoup sale discounts.

Either way, I believe things should be made to last, even multi generational with upgrades, and then be allowed to be repaired by anyone, within the confines of safety requirements. (Brakes, Steering, Batteries, electrical etc)

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Either way, I believe things should be made to last, even multi generational with upgrades, and then be allowed to be repaired by anyone, within the confines of safety requirements. (Brakes, Steering, Batteries, electrical etc)

I really do hope that Tesla lean a little closer towards the right to repair movement, it will enable significantly more sustainability. From simple repair all the way to reinvigorating old ICE vehicles.

 

[Ogre]

I really do hope that Tesla lean a little closer towards the right to repair movement, it will enable significantly more sustainability. From simple repair all the way to reinvigorating old ICE vehicles.

I agree, but I suspect it’s not likely to happen. Look at the latest tear down of the structural battery pack.

The thing is built to be a single piece. If you lose a cell, you are not going to be able to replace it. That pack is designed to be a single solid non-serviceable unit. Not only is it difficult to get apart, it is almost certainly structurally compromised once it’s been cracked open.

Many of the pieces of the Cybertruck will be similar.

 

[JBee]

I agree, but I suspect it’s not likely to happen. Look at the latest tear down of the structural battery pack.

The thing is built to be a single piece. If you lose a cell, you are not going to be able to replace it. That pack is designed to be a single solid non-serviceable unit. Not only is it difficult to get apart, it is almost certainly structurally compromised once it’s been cracked open.

Many of the pieces of the Cybertruck will be similar.

Thats inevitable if through design optimisation and iterations, parts are combined and others removed to create less cost but a better product with less weight.

The question is if its even necessary to service or repair the structural battery pack at all in its projected life, the BMS is likely capable of circumventing cells and managing them, and if the cell quality is high there's less chance of failure in the first place. If so glueing everything together actually makes sense and dollars.

Really, the right to repair is for components that can and will fail, and can be replaced because they are not structural. Things like, bearings, bushes, hoses, cables, joints, hinges, locks, suspension, brakes, steering etc...essentially anything that moves and does not form a structural support of the vehicle.

Its really a combination of things, those that should not fail that are embedded, and those that could fail that can be repaired. Then you have the best of both worlds.

 

[charliemagpie]

The battery pack will go the way of the mother board, the hard drive.. etc

On balance, It's just not worth the money to repair.

I know Munro and associates have difficulty taking the pack methodically apart, but a Neanderthal would have the same dilemma if faced with an iPhone.

We are faced with a different animal. It has been sandbagged. We make the cathode onsite. Its dirt.

The battery is made using robots… the whole thing can recycle 98%.

The battery pack sans a middle man, sans mining, sans labour, will cost the same as producing 800 200g tins of tuna.

It is a new measure.


Addendum..... Elon is waiting for the force of overwhelming strength to hit. In the meantime, it is softly-softly.

 

[Crissa]

Right to repair should mean we can at least replace the pack without needing Tesla.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

It’s not just the pack. Motors are buried inside big integrated drive units.

Serviceable parts will be limited to things like tires and suspension.

This is inevitable. Increasingly integrated components are more cost effective to manufacture and more difficult to replace. Some of these parts will cut 100s of dollars each off the cost of manufacturing. Many of these parts like the battery pack are more reliable because they are integrated. So you get less expensive up front costs, which is closer to tolerances, and reliable…

… but it’s less serviceable.

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