Cybertruck launch delayed again - Per AutoForecast Solutions - until Oct 2023

firsttruck

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That said I would have a real hard time paying $12k for FSD unless it was really proven level 5 and it was transferable for at least 10 years if my original CT is totaled.
If your Tesla vehicle with FSD is totaled, the cost for the replacement physical vehicle, physical options (PPF, ceramic coatings, floor mats, racks, etc) on the vehicle, FSD and other software is an issue between you and your insurance provider.

You have to make sure you buy insurance that will replace your physical vehicle, physical options on the vehicle, FSD and other software.
FSD transferable is not a Tesla problem.

Getting full replacement cost is an insurance feature or option you have to buy.
If you want you need to verify it is covered before you buy the insurance.

This issue regarding replacement of software is not new and is not unique to only Tesla.
 

Sirfun

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Just have to ensure your insurance will cover the FSD add-on I think there is a clause in most policies to get a new replacement vehicle instead of assessed value. If it’s Tesla insurance they should include FSD in any appraisal if the vehicle is totaled.

The hardware is used for Autopilot, parking, and sentry mode and not wasted at all.


I would **love** to be able to buy FSD just for road trips, but $200/ month to make a road trip is just too much. I suppose if I go on a cross country tour I’ll do it.

A daily rate would be super. Even $20/ day would be tolerable.
Elon talks like Robotaxi's will be cheap, and cost less than a bus ride. Why not give people the opportunity to use their own vehicle at robotaxi prices for themselves. Pay by the mile of use.

My mother-in-law has a vehicle she has used less than 4K miles in 4 years. She could definitely take advantage of using FSD, but how does it make sense to pay $200 a month for a service you only use for 100 miles. THAT’S $2 PER MILE!! Far from the cost of riding a bus!!!
 

Ogre

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Elon talks like Robotaxi's will be cheap, and cost less than a bus ride. Why not give people the opportunity to use their own vehicle at robotaxi prices for themselves. Pay by the mile of use.

My mother-in-law has a vehicle she has used less than 4K miles in 4 years. She could definitely take advantage of using FSD, but how does it make sense to pay $200 a month for a service you only use for 100 miles. THAT’S $2 PER MILE!! Far from the cost of riding a bus!!!
If you bought the car but paid for FSD by the mile it would be a nice hybrid. Maybe this is what you were suggesting?

Otherwise you are never going to get Robotaxi comparable costs because they are based on using the car 5x what a normal person does. You are spreading the fixed costs (vehicle purchase, routine maintenance, etc) across 100,000 miles versus spreading them across 10,000 miles.

Assuming your MIL lives in/ near a city, just using Robotaxi would probably be much better. No insurance, not maintenance, etc.
 

Sirfun

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If you bought the car but paid for FSD by the mile it would be a nice hybrid. Maybe this is what you were suggesting?
The MIL lives in our house in a city. She shouldn't own or drive her own vehicle, but why not give her the freedom of taking my Cybertruck to her Dr's office and trips around town she wants to go on.

It was an example of what would make sense and be fair. $200 per month for a service you barely use is ridiculous and not something I would think many people would pay.

Make it fair, pay by the mile and people will use the service, and Tesla would make Billions!
 

Tinker71

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If your Tesla vehicle with FSD is totaled, the cost for the replacement physical vehicle, physical options (PPF, ceramic coatings, floor mats, racks, etc) on the vehicle, FSD and other software is an issue between you and your insurance provider.

You have to make sure you buy insurance that will replace your physical vehicle, physical options on the vehicle, FSD and other software.
FSD transferable is not a Tesla problem.

Getting full replacement cost is an insurance feature or option you have to buy.
If you want you need to verify it is covered before you buy the insurance.

This issue regarding replacement of software is not new and is not unique to only Tesla.
Insurance is costly enough. To date I am an insurance pool payer. I have never had a claim, always paid. Adding $12k for insured value for software is crazy through the entire life cycle of a vehicle. Years 7-10 the vehicle will be worth much less but the software premium is still sitting at $12,000 of insured value.

I haven't bought a fancy new car for awhile, but is there a prepaid software subscription set up anywhere near $12,000 that you pay up front? I am thinking GPS maps, satellite radio etc. What is 6 years prepaid. $1500?

If Tesla sold the FSD for $12k over 10 years that is $100 per month. Tesla gets that up front vs a subscription service which people might turn off and on.

How hard would it be to have FSD for the life of the vehicle or 10 years minimum? If you crash your Tesla during the first year you could roll the remaining 9 years to the next Tesla. It creates brand loyalty as well. Otherwise you are walking away from $9000.

Again if you crash your rig in the first year, that is great for Tesla. $23,800 in revenue. Someone (most of us) will pay for that. I am surprised people are defending Tesla's position.
 

Ogre

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Insurance is costly enough. To date I am an insurance pool payer. I have never had a claim, always paid. Adding $12k for insured value for software is crazy through the entire life cycle of a vehicle. Years 7-10 the vehicle will be worth much less but the software premium is still sitting at $12,000 of insured value.

I haven't bought a fancy new car for awhile, but is there a prepaid software subscription set up anywhere near $12,000 that you pay up front? I am thinking GPS maps, satellite radio etc. What is 6 years prepaid. $1500?

If Tesla sold the FSD for $12k over 10 years that is $100 per month. Tesla gets that up front vs a subscription service which people might turn off and on.

How hard would it be to have FSD for the life of the vehicle or 10 years minimum? If you crash your Tesla during the first year you could roll the remaining 9 years to the next Tesla. It creates brand loyalty as well. Otherwise you are walking away from $9000.

Again if you crash your rig in the first year, that is great for Tesla. $23,800 in revenue. Someone (most of us) will pay for that. I am surprised people are defending Tesla's position.
You are making a bunCh of assumptions I don’t buy into.

You total your car, Insurance appraises the vehicle, based on replacement cost. If you bought the car with FSD, it is included in that appraisal.

Shop around, used Teslas with FSD sell for about $10,000 more than those without.


After 10 years the value of everything on your car is depreciated. If the car sells for $14,000 the same car wouldn’t sell for $24,000 with FSD. It might sell for 17,000 though.

Microsoft still collects that license fee every time you buy a new computer even though you bought it in the previous 1m you bought.
 

firsttruck

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You are making a bunCh of assumptions I don’t buy into.

You total your car, Insurance appraises the vehicle, based on replacement cost. If you bought the car with FSD, it is included in that appraisal.

Shop around, used Teslas with FSD sell for about $10,000 more than those without.


After 10 years the value of everything on your car is depreciated. If the car sells for $14,000 the same car wouldn’t sell for $24,000 with FSD. It might sell for 17,000 though.

Microsoft still collects that license fee every time you buy a new computer even though you bought it in the previous 1m you bought.

Yup, if a business had 100 computers that were bought with preloaded Microsoft windows operating system software and the site was flooded or burned, Microsoft would get new license fees when the business bought replacement PCs. This has been true for almost 30 years.
 

Tinker71

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Yup, if a business had 100 computers that were bought with preloaded Microsoft windows operating system software and the site was flooded or burned, Microsoft would get new license fees when the business bought replacement PCs. This has been true for almost 30 years.
HMM. $30?? each vs $12,000. Not the same.
 

Tinker71

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Shop around, used Teslas with FSD sell for about $10,000 more than those without.
Sorry Ogre - I don't believe this on average. Maybe for a quick resale because used Tesla are going for a premium now. But if you look for 2017 Model S with FSD. I just don't believe it it would fetch and extra $10k the odds of this example ever seeing level 5 driving are rapidly diminishing.
 

charliemagpie

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FSD should work like my old golf club membership

I paid $10,000 upfront, and then $1,200 per year fee.

Tesla doesn't have an exact timeframe. There are also competitors using gated FSD. Different countries, different rules. How it all lands when FSD is ready is vague.

I think Tesla is keeping its options open.

There may be many future options...Private or commercial use of FSD… Leased FSD… Subscription FSD. Scaled fees.

We may rue the day for not buying FSD when it was $10,000.
 

firsttruck

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HMM. $30?? each vs $12,000. Not the same.
Why would you compare a single $30 copy when most businesses have 10s, 100s or thousands of PCs at a single location?

Most businesses have many more PCs than vehicles.
100 PCs to 2 company cars.
300 PCs to 4 company cars.
1,000 PCs to 5 company cars.
The only businesses that usually have more cars than PCs are in transportation industry (taxis, rental, etc).

For most office type businesses most every employee has a PC and only executives, traveling salespersons or traveling repair persons drive company cars. Today hardly any companies have Teslas and almost none have Tesla FSD.

Your $30 per copy is too low for PC OEM preload windows10/11 Home which sells retail for $140. PC OEM preload windows10/11 Home probably pay close to $50.

$140 Microsoft Windows 10 Home - Full Retail Version (USB Flash Drive)
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-home/p/N82E16832350411

Also Microsoft might receive only $50 for home license of win10 from a large OEM (Dell, HP, etc) but the Pro/Business/Workstation licenses are considerably more $90. A small computer reseller's/system-integrator's cost (not end customer price) for a preload win10 Pro license to put on a PC being sold is $160. HP, Dell and others sell servers with preloaded Windows server licenses which is considerably more than $90.

So for 100 replacement business PCs got Microsoft $9K.

Each year Microsoft receives 10s of millions dollars from licenses fees for replacement PCs damaged by building fire, lithium fire, flood, lightning, electrical surges, theft, lost, etc.

When New Orleans was flooded by Hurricane Katrina in August 31, 2005:
More than 850,000 homes flooded. Most probably had PCs
Most of the school buildings and school PCs were flooded.
Tens of thousands of businesses and business PCs and servers were flooded.

------------------------

2005 Hurricane Katrina: Facts, FAQs
https://www.worldvision.org/disaster-relief-news-stories/2005-hurricane-katrina-facts

.....
Hurricane Katrina remains the costliest hurricane in U.S. history, causing an estimated $161 billion in damage along the U.S. Gulf Coast. It destroyed or damaged more than 850,000 homes. Between 300,000 to 350,000 vehicles were also destroyed, as well as 2,400 ships and vessels. Fifty levees and floodwalls failed, causing unprecedented flooding, most notably in New Orleans. At least 80% of New Orleans was under floodwaters on Aug. 31, two days after the hurricane hit.

------------------------
 

firsttruck

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Today the best FSD by Mercedes, $7,726 option for EQS BEV car with hardware price starting at $102,310.

FSD
Dry road conditions
Only some highways.
No city streets.
No suburbs.
No intersections.
Less than 40 mph.
Away from tunnels or construction zones.
Nor can the Level 3 system change lanes, even in response to instructions from the navigation system.

Mercedes' hardware required for Drive Pilot is both radar & LIDAR.

Tesla's hardware is much less expensive & standard included AutoPilot software seems more useful.

-----------------------

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS with Drive Pilot: Autonomous on the Autobahn ( not yet in USA).
Mercedes in Germany is offering both the EQS EV with optional Level 3 Drive Pilot support for 7,430 euro ($7,726).
By Mike Duff May 12, 2022
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39966189/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-drive-pilot-drive/

.....
vehicles can only do so in very limited circumstances. They must be on one of the nation's 8200 miles of autobahn highway in traffic traveling at no more than 60 km/h (37 mph) in dry conditions and away from tunnels or construction zones.
 
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Tinker71

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Why would you compare a single $30 copy when most businesses have 10s, 100s or thousands of PCs at a single location?

Most businesses have many more PCs than vehicles.
100 PCs to 2 company cars.
300 PCs to 4 company cars.
1,000 PCs to 5 company cars.
The only businesses that usually have more cars than PCs are in transportation industry (taxis, rental, etc).

For most office type businesses most every employee has a PC and only executives, traveling salespersons or traveling repair persons drive company cars. Today hardly any companies have Teslas and almost none have Tesla FSD.

Your $30 per copy is too low for PC OEM preload windows10/11 Home which sells retail for $140. PC OEM preload windows10/11 Home probably pay close to $50.

$140 Microsoft Windows 10 Home - Full Retail Version (USB Flash Drive)
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-home/p/N82E16832350411

Also Microsoft might receive only $50 for home license of win10 from a large OEM (Dell, HP, etc) but the Pro/Business/Workstation licenses are considerably more $90. A small computer reseller's/system-integrator's cost (not end customer price) for a preload win10 Pro license to put on a PC being sold is $160. HP, Dell and others sell servers with preloaded Windows server licenses which is considerably more than $90.

So for 100 replacement business PCs got Microsoft $9K.

Each year Microsoft receives 10s of millions dollars from licenses fees for replacement PCs damaged by building fire, lithium fire, flood, lightning, electrical surges, theft, lost, etc.

When New Orleans was flooded by Hurricane Katrina in August 31, 2005:
More than 850,000 homes flooded. Most probably had PCs
Most of the school buildings and school PCs were flooded.
Tens of thousands of businesses and business PCs and servers were flooded.

------------------------

2005 Hurricane Katrina: Facts, FAQs
https://www.worldvision.org/disaster-relief-news-stories/2005-hurricane-katrina-facts

.....
Hurricane Katrina remains the costliest hurricane in U.S. history, causing an estimated $161 billion in damage along the U.S. Gulf Coast. It destroyed or damaged more than 850,000 homes. Between 300,000 to 350,000 vehicles were also destroyed, as well as 2,400 ships and vessels. Fifty levees and floodwalls failed, causing unprecedented flooding, most notably in New Orleans. At least 80% of New Orleans was under floodwaters on Aug. 31, two days after the hurricane hit.

------------------------
Why are you comparing 100 computers to 1 CT. Call it a $50 license vs a $12000 license. No comparison.
 

Ogre

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Sorry Ogre - I don't believe this on average. Maybe for a quick resale because used Tesla are going for a premium now. But if you look for 2017 Model S with FSD. I just don't believe it it would fetch and extra $10k the odds of this example ever seeing level 5 driving are rapidly diminishing.
I don’t shop used Teslas, but when I was buying mine low mileage cars with FSD sold at a big premium. Tesla charges above new prices for their used ones and tacks on pretty much full price.

Can’t say if this will last or not but for the moment anyhow it seems like they command a premium regardless of whether they ever reach L5.
 

Ogre

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Why are you comparing 100 computers to 1 CT. Call it a $50 license vs a $12000 license. No comparison.
The point is licenses frequently are paired with hardware or there is a maintenance agreement required to maintain updates. It costs money to keep software updated over the life of a device. The longer the device lasts, the higher the maintenance is.
 

 
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