HaulingAss

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Off topic, but either way that's a bit optimistic and/or exaggerated based on every independent test I've seen since early 2018.... At BEST its about 10 miles of saved range at highway speeds....around town little to none. I took them off at delivery and sold them shortly after. 10 miles isn't worth the eyesore and scratched up alloys underneath IMO.

How are you fitting 18" Aero's on a true performance 3 anyways? They have never fit over the larger calipers without modification. I now have a 19' Stealth Performance 3 that did come with Aero's because the calipers are the standard dual motor size. :unsure:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30169467/tesla-model-3s-aero-wheel-covers-efficiency-test/
I have one of the first Performance Model 3's made. Yes, it's a true Performance Model 3, no it doesn't have bigger brakes, just the regular Brembos. Anyone could easily upgrade the brakes or lower the suspension if they wanted but I didn't want to give up the aero wheels for road trips or the ground clearance for backcountry roads. This focus on efficiency isn't to save a few cents worth of electricity considering my car has free Supercharging for life and electricity at home is only $0.095/kWh. The focus on efficiency is so I can road trip at higher speeds and skip more Superchargers without having to charge in the slow part of the charge curve. Because the car charges so much more quickly below 60% state of charge, the aero wheels help me maximize the amount of time I can keep it below that. The net effect is that 5-7% additional range can decrease my charge time by 10%-15%.

I get better range than most "independent" tests I've seen too. I run higher pressures in my tires (which are the OEM Michelin MXM4's, when they are not the Winter Pirellis). At 75 mph, aero becomes a much bigger component of the energy consumed. The exact savings of the aero covers are dependent upon many things because many things affect aerodynamic resistance significantly. When you have optimized efficiency in other ways, aero becomes a bigger part of the equation. 5-7% is a good average for my setup at a steady 75 mph. I did a 95 mph trip to Montana and back with actual speeds ranging from 75-125 and was amazed that the high speeds didn't affect the amount of time I spent at a charger to a greater degree. Of course I was charging in the bottom of the charge curve. Without the aero wheels the hit would have been much bigger.

The Car and Driver test you cite has a couple of notable faults - they only went 10 miles for each of two runs and they used the car's trip meter functions to determine consumption. That would be accurate over a hundred miles or so, but the short distance introduces the granularity and approximations introduced by the car's software which is designed as a driver aid, not for scientific testing. Also, anyone familiar with the amount of energy involved in accelerating up to highway speeds knows it is a significnt fraction of energy consumed at cruise. So that, coupled with the very short measurement, and use of the heater can impact accuracy significantly. Yes, the heater was used on both runs but it's additional overhead that reduces the percentage gain of aero wheels. As I said earlier, the percentage gains will be lower in a less efficent situation (like with the cabin heater maintaining 32 degrees of temperature differential.

One factor of the test that works against the efficiency gain reported is that the runs were conducted with the cabin heat set to 72 degrees on a 40 degree day. Depending upon how long the car cooled between runs can significantly throw off the numbers. Also, if you have less efficient tires and run them at less efficient air pressures, then the savings will be a smaller percent of the total energy used. The official tire pressure of the Model 3 was 44 psi (I run mine around 46 psi) but Tesla lowered it because Americans were used to a more plush ride. It actually corners harder/better at the higher pressures. The C&D test used the lower42 psi. that Tesla changed it to.

One more thing to be aware of: Ultimately, the thing that affects the life of your battery pack is not how many miles you have driven, it's how much electricity you have charged it with and used. If one car is 5% more efficient than another, all else being equal, the battery will last 5% more miles. Since a Model 3 battery is likely good for around 300,000-500,000 miles on average, that's a savings of 15,000-25,000 more miles just due to the added efficiency of the aero wheels.

The only real downside is if you don't like the aesthetics but I didn't buy the car to look cool, I bought it because it was the coolest car out there! Not in looks, in operation. And the aero wheels contribute to that.
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HaulingAss

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True, but the 18" Aero wheels don't fit over the brakes that were sold as a performance upgrade package when I bought my Performance Model 3. The only reason one would want or need the additional heat capacity of the performance brakes is if one were tracking the car. In normal driving, the standard brakes are fully capable of bringing the tires to the limit of traction, even from 100 mph or more. It can haul it all the way down to zero without excessive fade. It's only on the track, where there is repetitive hard braking that you would want or need more thermal capacity. In normal emergency braking on the street, it is the tires that determine stopping distance, not the thermal capacity of the brakes.
 

HaulingAss

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Tesla quotes the most generous range possible.

So if you see a number from them, you can be sure it’s in whatever is the most efficient (and drivable) mode they have. I doubt range would be based on a setting which is impractical for driving on the highway, but it’ll be the lowest setting available for highway driving.
Tesla doesn't "quote" any efficiency or range numbers except the ones they have actually measured according to strict EPA testing protocols and procedures. There are no slow Tesla's so all of them are capable of speeds and accelerations well beyond those reached in the EPA protocols. In fact, I would argue that Tesla's tend to handle so well, and have such enticing throttle response that they encourage drivers to cut loose a bit more than they might be inclined to do with more staid vehicles with less power and less confidence inspiring handling. I often think I'm going slower than I am, even after four years of ownership.


My wifes LR Model 3, after over 4 years and 60K miles is sitting BELOW the EPA combined consumption figures. That's right, in everyday driving, using normal heat and A/C, etc. her car's lifetime efficiency is BETTER than the EPA combined figures would indicate! Probably because her normal daily routine has her driving a lot on a State Highway that's somewhat congested with other traffic. But still...

My consumption, in my P3D, is a little above that but not by a huge amount, especially considering I like to mix it up.
 

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The only real downside is if you don't like the aesthetics but I didn't buy the car to look cool, I bought it because it was the coolest car out there! Not in looks, in operation. And the aero wheels contribute to that.
So you have a Stealth Performance.....got it.

You're really missing out with those MXM4's, one of the lower end tires in its class. Burned through mine in 15k on the LR RWD . I've tried everything from X-Ice winters, General GMAX RS summers and now on Michelin CrossClimate2's which will do it all.

Why bother with a Performance model if your focus is efficiency and range? You would do much better in both cases with a dual motor. :unsure:

Obviously different type owner here, I drive the car hard on the daily and wouldn't own one if it wasn't for Tesla's performance orientation. With an upgraded suspension and cosmetic mods these cars really shine and the aftermarket support is really picking up as well. I am nearly 100% offset with solar for home and charging needs so a few extra kWh here and there don't bother me one bit.

Last thing I ever want to drive is a generic car that looks like everyone else. Can't wait for the Cybertruck mods to begin! :cool:

My 2018 Silver Metallic LR RWD (SOLD) and 2019 3M Satin Dark Gray wrapped Stealth Performance examples attached. 👀

Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck pic - in lowest air suspension mode & windows down J1e


Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck pic - in lowest air suspension mode & windows down image_50418945.JPG


Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck pic - in lowest air suspension mode & windows down DJI_0075


Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck pic - in lowest air suspension mode & windows down Untitled
 
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HaulingAss

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So you have a Stealth Performance.....got it.

You're really missing out with those MXM4's, probably the worst performing tire in its class.
That depends upon conditions. Rubber compound matters. MXM4's are terrible in California heat but actually some of the best tires I've ever driven in a cold rain. We get a lot of cold rain here. I love performance driving in cold rain. The tires that Tesla now sell as "summer tires" fail miserably here most of the non-snow season. I want non-winter tires I can run 8 months of the year. And to get the most out of them you have to fully understand their characteristics. They are not track tires but they can perform quite well on the street, you just have to keep the rubber from over-heating. I do that by running 46 psi in most conditions and not doing extended performance or high speed driving on warmer days.

Understand your rubber compounds and what their strong and weak points are. This is one reason I like the MXM4's, they don't have to be warmed up to pull an awesome emergency evasive maneuver or stick a couple of corners hard on a cold, wet day. Try that on your summer performance tires around here and I'll be yanking you out of the ditch if you were lucky enough to not fly off a cliff. We've got some nice sharp chipseal road surfaces around here, they will make mincemeat of your California summer tires (or, alternatively, East Coast summer tires). The MXM4's have a rubber compound and a tread design that just plain works on these cold, sharp road surfaces. Don't run 42 PSI like the manual recommends, the sidewalls will tuck under. I run 46 PSI and would up that to 47-48 PSI if I found myself on a track with nothing else to run. - But, if I took it to a track I would buy some track tires. I've never seen a track that had a chipseal surface!

If I tracked my car, I would still run 18" wheels but I would buy a set that fit over bigger discs with higher thermal capacity (and mount track tires, of course, even if DOT approved). 18" wheels on a Model 3 will be faster on the track and be easier on the brakes, but I don't track my car and I'm not a poser. Run the gear that works for what you use the car for. My Performance Model 3 is setup ideally for my needs simply by changing tires twice a year. That's it. It performs optimally for my use. People who think MXM4's are just a crappy tire don't know what they are talking about. It may not suit their local conditions, they might not know what pressures to run them at, but they are awesome tires for cooler weather if you are not running them at track temperatures. They even work well for extended driving at higher speeds because their efficient carcass stays relatively cool under high speed cruising. But they must be aired up to at least 46 psi.

Why bother with a Performance model if your focus is efficiency and range? You would do much better in both cases with a dual motor. :unsure:

Obviously different type owner here, I drive the car hard on the daily and wouldn't own one if it wasn't for Tesla's performance orientation. With an upgraded suspension and cosmetic mods these cars really shine and the aftermarket support is really picking up as well. I am nearly 100% offset with solar for home and charging needs so a few extra kWh here and there don't bother me one bit.
As previously stated, I'm not focused on efficiency to save money, it's actually something that interests me. The Model 3 Performance tickles my bells here and does things my wifes non-performance Model 3 cannot hope to do. BTW, my Perfomance Model 3 is a dual motor Model 3 with the same efficiency figures as the LR AWD Model 3. The only reason the EPA numbers differ on more recent Performance versions is because the Performance wheels are so much less efficient (and now the P models come with the less aerodynamic wheels). My Performance Model 3 has identical efficiency as a regular AWD Model 3 and considerably more get up and go out of the corners. It's squirts out of cold, wet corners like a grapefruit seed being squeezed by thumb and forefinger! I love the fact that it's a total sleeper, looking just like a plain Jane, regular Model 3. If I had a carbon spoiler, red brakes and a bunch of aftermarket racer decals to "personalize" it, well, that would give away that it was a very fast and capable little car.

Last thing I ever want to drive is a generic car that looks like everyone else. Can't wait for the Cybertruck mods to begin! :cool:
Have fun with the mods! And, if it's important to you what your truck looks like, you had better get busy with the mods because Tesla will be making millions of Cybertrucks! Also, make sure you're not buying the same aftermarket doo-dads that everyone and their brother are buying. Me? I don't care what it looks like as long as it's ready to serve my needs as well as possible. It's mostly the driver, not the equipment anyway.

The last thing I want to do is be like most new truck purchasers who think making mods somehow makes their truck more "theirs" or better than everyone elses. Often it doesn't. I make modifications if I see a way to improve performance or functionality without significant downsides that outweigh the improvements. Cost is no object if I can make it better but I'm under no illusions that tacking on a bunch of aftermarket crap makes it any better!

On my car, I am getting ready to replace the OEM dampers and anti-sway bar bushings to bring back handling to at least as good as it was before they started to degrade. But I want to tread carefully here because it's easy to upset the grip it has on icy roads with dampers/springs that are too hard. A supple and balanced suspension is super important for driving on low traction surfaces that are not racetrack smooth.

As far as 4WD trucks are concerned, I've out-wheeled many an off-road poser-boy who had a gnarlier looking off-road rig than mine! In fact, it's hilarious how often some of these posers get stuck on easy trails! Sometimes they even roll-over because they didn't understand that keeping the center of gravity as low as possible is actually a big part of off-road capability. Because driving skill and knowing how to set your rig up is more important than how much after-market crap you've bought to make it look cool and how gnarly your tread looks. Rubber compound matters off-road too and you can't even see it.

The aftermarket poser phenomenon is not a new thing, but it's definitely become worse in the last couple of decades. I was in court with a speeding ticket when I observed a ricer boy-racer who showed up to tell the judge he was not driving his Honda too fast for conditions when he spun out in standing rainwater, bounced off a guardrail, took out two more cars and hit the guardrail again. How did he know he was not driving too fast for conditions? According to him, it was because he was going the same speed as every other car on the 4 lane freeway.

The judge pointed out that he must have been going too fast for conditions because he couldn't control his car. He hydroplaned into multiple spins and impacts. But the kid had all the latest mods, wider tires for the track with just enough tread to make them DOT legal, lowered suspension, red colored brakes, lighter free-flowing exhaust, firmer shocks, upgraded anti-sway bars, etc. Because he was a boy racer, an excellent driver, I'm sure. :rolleyes: But he couldn't even drive the same speed as the other plebians on the road because his car was so superior! And his driver's skills were so high he didn't need to slow down. Yet, he was the only one who spun out. His "improvements" endangered a whole bunch of responsible road users because he didn't know what he was doing or how his mods actually made his car less capable in those situations.

This racer boy and the Honorable Judge went back and forth so many times the Judge was actually getting entertained by the fact that racer boy couldn't understand the wisdom of the ticket. He must have been going too fast for conditions or he would not have hydroplaned and spun-out. I could tell he wqs trying to get the boy to admit he was going too fast so he could reduce the ticket by 50% but the boy was too stupid to see the truth in what the judge was saying so, in the end, he let the full fine stand while poser boy left the courtroom, jaw hanging, feeling like he had been cheated. Because he was going the same speed as everyone else.

My favorites are the dorks who put a smoked film over their headlights because they think it looks cool. I'm glad you are not one of those as your photos will attest! Those idiots don't think it matters if they filter out a full 40% of the photons emitted by their headlights before they hit the road! All to look cool! I've been around long enough to know that I'm even cooler if I'm letting the photons run free!

Sorry to carry on so long but your comments made it sound like you knew more about what my car needed to perform best in my conditions and I wanted to help you learn that there is more to setting up a car for a particular purpose than you realize.
 

HaulingAss

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I was answering a specific question, not making a broad statement.
True, and I was making a specific comment about a specific comment. I am a little sensitive to this subject because so many TSLAQ types make unfounded claims about how unrealistic Teslas EPA ratings are when they derive the numbers from a very specif protocol. I can easily get EPA efficiency, but I choose not to. My wife drives and heats her car through the winter, about 12K miles/year for four years and gets better than Teslas EPA efficiency numbers (all-time average efficiency). She is not a hypermiler either, she just drives normally.
 

HaulingAss

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You know what that tells me? That American tire consumers are mostly amateurs that don't understand what they are doing. They don't understand that a tire's air pressure is important and linked to the temperature the tread will reach under use. That "cooking" the rubber will permanently and irreversibly negatively impact the traction for the rest of the tires life. Underinflate a tire for one highway trip on a hot day and ruin it forever. Some tires are more resistant to this than others and I never like those tires. It's the same on my motorcycles. The tires I find that have the best performance are susceptible to over-heating when run at too low of a pressure. This cooks the rubber, changing the molecular structure and permanently making the tire hard with a lack of grip.

I've also found that tire reviews by amateurs have a built-in bias against any tire that a manufacturer uses as an OEM tire. Because they expect it to be bad since it's "stock". Don't get me wrong, I've bought cars that came with tires I found attrocious at any pressure, but not every OEM tire is bad like this.

In any case, I would never choose tires for my cool, damp climate based on reviewers who are heavily weighted in California, New York, Texas and Florida.

That makes no sense.
 

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I try to only check the pro reviews, that way you hope to at least get the same guys with the same track.

Too many open-public reviews are filled with random stuff unrelated to the tires.

-Crissa
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