Did Elon Confirm 350kW Charging For Cybertruck??

Bob Anderson

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So if 350kW charging is coming to the future, and the future is the 4680 cell, and the best 4680 cell is going into Cybertruck and Semi, can it be reasonable to say this is all but a confirmation of 350kW charging for the Cybertruck?

Frankly, this was the best news of the entire presentation IMO.





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John K

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So if 350kW charging is coming to the future, and the future is the 4680 cell, and the best 4680 cell is going into Cybertruck and Semi, can it be reasonable to say this is all but a confirmation of 350kW charging for the Cybertruck?

Frankly, this was the best news of the entire presentation IMO.
I'm possibly more or less not definitely rejecting the idea that in no way with any amount of uncertainty that I undeniably do or do not know where he shouldn't probably be, if that indeed wasn't where he isn't. (Shrek Pinocchio)
 

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We all knew that eventually Tesla would up the 'amperage' (so to speak) on V3 superchargers, if for no other reason than to match their competitors. For Elon Musk to say that, someday, superchargers will go to 280, 300, or 350 kilowatts isn't saying much. He didn't say when did he? And i am certain that the CT will benefit from it, whenever it happens.
 
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Bob Anderson

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We all knew that eventually Tesla would up the 'amperage' (so to speak) on V3 superchargers, if for no other reason than to match their competitors. For Elon Musk to say that, someday, superchargers will go to 280, 300, or 350 kilowatts isn't saying much. He didn't say when did he? And i am certain that the CT will benefit from it, whenever it happens.
Good point. Will this eventual 350kW be on existing V3 or on new V4. V2 got a bump in charging rate at V3 event so I would expect V3 chargers to get a similar bump.

350kW in the future is obvious, but unless they are working on even newer cells than 4680, 350kw must be for those cells. Now if they could only put more V3 chargers in the midwest. They're all V2 unfortunately.
 

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So if 350kW charging is coming to the future, and the future is the 4680 cell, and the best 4680 cell is going into Cybertruck and Semi, can it be reasonable to say this is all but a confirmation of 350kW charging for the Cybertruck?
Not IMO - at least not right away.

The picture below is a depiction of the CHarIn envelope for the HPC350 class of charger. The EA chargers that are being installed today are HPC350 class. Rivian can charge from them (but currently only up to 300 kW).


CharIn HPC350.jpeg


The curved line that takes a nibble out of the upper right hand corner represents 350 kW. To get the 350 kW you must charge between 700 and 920 V. Tesla and Rivian both have 400V architecture. Lucid and at least one other manufacturer have 800 or higher voltage arcitectures. Rivian uses this class by splitting the battery into two halves which are connected in series for charging (thus making the string 800V) and in parallel for driving. To get to 350 kW with the current drive train architecture Tesla will have to do the same thing. But Rivian holds a patent on this trick. Tesla will have to pay the royalties or go to a 800 V architecture. I'm guessing that at least initially they will pay up as, painful though it may be, charging time is getting to be a big competitive feature.
 
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Not IMO - at least not right away.

The picture below is a depiction of the CHarIn envelope for the HPC350 class of charger. The EA chargers that are being installed today are HPC350 class. Rivian can charge from them (but currently only up to 300 kW).


CharIn HPC350.jpeg


The curved line that takes a nibble out of the upper right hand corner represents 350 kW. To get the 350 kW you must charge between 700 and 920 V. Tesla and Rivian both have 400V architecture. Lucid and at least one other manufacturer have 800 or higher voltage arcitectures. Rivian uses this class by splitting the battery into two halves which are connected in series for charging (thus making the string 800V) and in parallel for driving. To get to 350 kW with the current drive train architecture Tesla will have to do the same thing. But Rivian holds a patent on this trick. Tesla will have to pay the royalties or go to a 800 V architecture. I'm guessing that at least initially they will pay up as, painful though it may be, charging time is getting to be a big competitive feature.
Interesting. So if Watts is Amps X Volts, why doesn't your diagram support 450kW (500A X 900V)? Is it due to inefficiencies?

And if we assume Tesla is still using a 400V architecture, is it out of realm of possibility that their system can accept 875A?
 

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While I also desire 350kw charging, it isn't a great metric for implying faster charge on a vehicle. What we need is a better metric like miles/ per minute charge. As batteries get higher capacity the 80% rapid charge regime is pretty large but there are so many things that affect peak charge rate. I really have no way to evaluate whether rivian or Tesla or any other will change more rapidly. i get that theoretically high kw rate should mean quicker but does it actually translate to the real world?
I also understand that we don't know pack size for CT so no way to guess what M/mC would be.
 

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Not IMO - at least not right away.

The picture below is a depiction of the CHarIn envelope for the HPC350 class of charger. The EA chargers that are being installed today are HPC350 class. Rivian can charge from them (but currently only up to 300 kW).


CharIn HPC350.jpeg


The curved line that takes a nibble out of the upper right hand corner represents 350 kW. To get the 350 kW you must charge between 700 and 920 V. Tesla and Rivian both have 400V architecture. Lucid and at least one other manufacturer have 800 or higher voltage arcitectures. Rivian uses this class by splitting the battery into two halves which are connected in series for charging (thus making the string 800V) and in parallel for driving. To get to 350 kW with the current drive train architecture Tesla will have to do the same thing. But Rivian holds a patent on this trick. Tesla will have to pay the royalties or go to a 800 V architecture. I'm guessing that at least initially they will pay up as, painful though it may be, charging time is getting to be a big competitive feature.
They must run a solid buss bar to handle this current. Some quick math gets me close to 5 square centimeters of copper to handle that kind of current!
 

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Interesting. So if Watts is Amps X Volts, why doesn't your diagram support 450kW (500A X 900V)? Is it due to inefficiencies?
It's because this class is designed for 350 kW. On the mains side a 450 kW charger would have to be fed with a 450 kVA transformer - larger and more expensive than the 350 kVA transformer that feeds a 350 kW charger.

And if we assume Tesla is still using a 400V architecture, is it out of realm of possibility that their system can accept 875A?
Well yes, that's getting into some pretty heavy copper. The biggest SC is 250 kW at the moment and that takes 625 A to deliver which requires a liquid cooled charging hose.
 

ajdelange

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They must run a solid buss bar to handle this current. Some quick math gets me close to 5 square centimeters of copper to handle that kind of current!
It would take some MCM to handle 500 A in air for sure which is why the charging hoses are jacketed within a chilled glycol loop.
 

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How can Rivian patent a split pack? Seems like splitting hairs. Its not like rocket science. I think Amazon might of delivered that one. When did this happen btw?

As for 350kW charging...that won't be happening anytime soon in our mostly RE powered isolated grid 1000 person town. We have a average constant load of about 450kW on our whole grid, peaking to about 1200kW in hot summer evenings with the aircon on, once the sun goes down on our 400kW of rooftop PV and 1.2MW of wind. Plugging my CT into a 350kW SC here would be interesting to say the least.

And we wouldn't be the only town in rural Australia where this will be an issue. This will be a big problem for a while to come, given that our thin interconnected grid is disolving into low power, mostly solar RE powered microgrids, with low load diesel backups.

I suppose the solution there would be to add some Tesla Megapacks for $1m each. You could buffer some RE to stabilise the grid if its not CT charging, then use a CT to drive some power home from SC charging at the shops for 15min. Technically if you could schedule it properly with some weather and load prediction (maybe with self driving?) you could actually replace most of the remote grid connections with a CT and a SC Megapack with some RE combo in town. Ideal for developing nations where they don't have a grid anyway.

At some point not to far in the future all our appliances will have their own battery pack and be able to fast charge (look at powertools we have now), and along with the current "grid defection" going on (where energy providers and networks are losing energy sales because of consumers with embedded solar, to the point they can't afford to maintain their networks) we might end up having quite a "wireless" grid free power distribution system anyway.

I always thought it a waste to have so much energy conversion tech driving around in ICE cars, which are parked at home or work most of the time doing nothing. Theres some 20x the amount of ICE car engine power capacity compared to to grid capacity. Cars are a really poor ROI because of the time of use and depreciation. But at least my CTs at home and work will be doing something. One of the main reasons I have a few TMs on order is because for the price of a cheap 200kWh battery pack to run the home and workshop, I also get a bullet proof self driving offroad truck thrown in! ;-)
 

anionic1

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I agree that it would be odd if they are awarded the patent. It would be like saying I invented the parallel or series circuit. It doesn't seem novel enough but it would seem like this would be the best way to get faster charging while limiting amps. Does anyone know if Rivian wa awarded this patent and if that will limit other EV vendors from charging in series and operating in parallel?
 

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