EV energy expect 25% demand growth

[rr6013]

Stanford study posits that by charging EV’s at home we’re doing it wrong. At least, at the wrong time.

An over abundance of energy riches from RE(wind, solar) are being squandered on California‘s grid. Due to electricity rate structures from a time before solar and wind, current grid growth no longer aligns with existing energy-use. Blame solar growth for the abundance, but EV nighttime charging patterns are letting it go to waste.

Tesla’s solar messaging is impacting its EV space in a good way to the extent that the study suggests nighttime charging is no longer cheapest, best time anymore. The study goes into the commercial/industrial weeds on electricity rates .vs. EV charging. It does come out on the side of BEV, charging and quantizing the argument for improving the EV charging rates.

Good high level study that managed to weed through bureaucratic rate structures and delineate a measure of improvement for EV, commercial, industrial and the grid.

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[Crissa]

We should charge at work.

But uhh... the grid charges that, too.

-Crissa

 

[rr6013]

Either the CAISO decouples EV chargers rate from commercial/industrial structures OR Business decouples EV charging buying its own solar/batt/chargers to regain the energy back that it needs as EV demand encroaches on its rates.

Just guessing PUC will cowboy this on the back of industry.

 

[Crissa]

Either the CAISO decouples EV chargers rate from commercial/industrial structures OR Business decouples EV charging buying its own solar/batt/chargers to regain the energy back that it needs as EV demand encroaches on its rates.

Just guessing PUC will cowboy this on the back of industry.

Coops and generation selection means pricing can be decoupled already.

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

We should charge at work.

But uhh... the grid charges that, too.

-Crissa

In southern California & other southwestern states, work places (offices or factories) should have solar panels so the the daytime energy can mostly so directly to building A/C & charging EV batteries then when the mass of worker return home in early evening their EVs can be tapped a little to lower grid peak.

Actual net might be grid pays us.

Workers who live in apartments still get advantage of place to charge EV ( work).

 

[Ogre]

As more and more solar comes online over the next couple decades, daytime power is going to get cheap so this will all change up.

if you have your own solar plus storage setup you can plan your own timing. That probably means plugging in direct to solar rather than overnight off the house battery.

 

[JBee]

The rule should simply be that you install solar where you are during the day sunlight hours.
If you're at work you need solar there to charge your EV, and if you are at home you need solar there. You can have solar everywhere too. But Ideally the CT would either have a Solar MPPT input, or you use microinverters running at 240V, but the CT can modulate the charge rate according to what the solar can deliver.

No need for network connection then, and much much cheaper to install solar carports. Solar panel prices are currently so low it's cheaper than making a standard roof. Then after work in the evening you take a full battery home and run your house overnight with it.

 

[HaulingAss]

As more and more solar comes online over the next couple decades, daytime power is going to get cheap so this will all change up.

if you have your own solar plus storage setup you can plan your own timing. That probably means plugging in direct to solar rather than overnight off the house battery.

The Stanford study is humorous in that the solution is so simple. It's for utilities to use Time Of Use (TOU) rate structures that are aligned with supply and demand. The article claims current TOU rate structures are not aligned with supply and demand. Gee, I wonder whose fault that is? It's blatantly calling out the utilities for being completely incompetent at proposing rate structures that make sense as we move forward.

The benefits of sensible TOU rate structures cannot be understated and will serve to boost utility profits and reduce the average cost of electricity to the users. Electricity is about to become very cheap overall as TOU rate structures will help utilities sell more electricity with less infrastructure costs. Said another way, logical TOU rate structures improve the cost efficiency of delivering large amounts of electricity to consumers.

And the advantages go beyond lowering costs. For example, if wholesale electricity consumers who run fast charging networks were charged essentially zero when there was an over-supply of solar and/or wind energy, then the delta between the wholesale price and what they can charge consumers to fast charge their EV becomes the profit that makes it compelling to build out their fast charging network into rural areas because people are more likely to need a charge in rural areas in the middle of the day when there is surplus electricity. Even if these rural chargers have low utilization rates, they can be profitable enough to compel the network to expand to those rural areas.

 

[JBee]

The Stanford study is humorous in that the solution is so simple. It's for utilities to use Time Of Use (TOU) rate structures that are aligned with supply and demand. The article claims current TOU rate structures are not aligned with supply and demand. Gee, I wonder whose fault that is? It's blatantly calling out the utilities for being completely incompetent at proposing rate structures that make sense as we move forward.

The benefits of sensible TOU rate structures cannot be understated and will serve to boost utility profits and reduce the overage cost of electricity to the users. Electricity is about to become very cheap overall as TOU rate structures will help utilities sell more electricity with less infrastructure costs. Said another way, logical TOU rate structures improve the cost efficiency of delivering large amounts of electricity to consumers.

And the advantages go beyond lowering costs. For example, if wholesale electricity consumers who run fast charging networks were charged essentially zero when there was an over-supply of solar and/or wind energy, then the delta between the wholesale price and what they can charge consumers to fast charge their EV becomes the profit that makes it compelling to build out their fast charging network into rural areas because people are more likely to need a charge in rural areas in the middle of the day when there is surplus electricity. Even if these rural chargers have low utilization rates, they can be profitable enough to compel the network to expand to those rural areas.

Completely agree on the ToU argument. This has been an ongoing policy proposal here in Australia for a while. The biggest issue with it though is that it is predominantly solar households that are causing the network problem, and many work places have not yet taken up solar in a big way to offset the primary charging time to the daytime, when most have their EV parked at work.

The correct lever to place on the system would be to incentivize employers to install solar charging carports. As it stands most employers don't have a good reason to install charging for their employees, unless they themselves have an EV fleet.

There is a general issue in rural areas with population density, and that leads to very thin network capacity. Many rural towns don't have network capacities to even run one SC, let alone a few. So the solution there would be to buffer the local network with a Megapack and SC setup, which would allow the network provider to charge the megapack off peak over the existing network, whilst being bale to provide peak loads for the SC from storage.

 

[rr6013]

Utilities are MEGA protective of the franchise(err monopoly) investment. I only have experience with SDG&E who burden solar generation with grid O.H. cost, connection fee and failed to discount cost of electricity charging one rate for use- paying still a lower rate for solar non-spin electricity generated to the grid.

It was only one solar install, back 1990’s era. I’ve been cynical ever since it planted power poles through Anza-Borrego desert to purchase power elsewhere.

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