Advertisement



VolklKatana

Well-known member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
287
Location
Madison, WI
Website
ts.la
Vehicles
2013 Tesla Model S 85, '06 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0si, Soon: Tri-Motor Cybertruck FSD
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag
By connecting the dots, some interesting Battery Day information is coming to light.

Tesla Battery Day Amping Up as Nanowire Tech Co Moves Next Door to "RoadRunner" Site

by Eva Fox August 24, 2020

Battery Cells Tesla Tesla Battery Day



8_e3a5882a-273a-4b58-9d52-5c6b521fe4ae_1600x.jpg


Featured image: Tesmanian
After Tesla announced the upcoming Battery Day and Annual Shareholders Meeting, speculation immediately began. And the speculative excitement continues, for good reason: Tesla chose a very interesting background image for the announcement. If we enlarge the background and enhance the contrast, there are some hints of battery chemistry, or possibly nanowires.
4_d2d6016e-2fde-43cb-8a3c-172a67ce1299_grande.jpg


Previously, some community members indeed suggested that this image looks like nanowires. Others have noticed that the image is similar to the process that occurs in a battery cell that uses tabless electrode technology.


Now there is new information that points to possible collaboration between Tesla and Amprius Technologies. Amprius manufactures and distributes batteries, and their research and development is dedicated to the silicon nanowire anode.

At the end of June, Tesla applied for the redevelopment of two buildings at 47700 Kato Road and 1055 Page. According to these documents, the building at 47700 Kato Road will be used to host additional production and R&D operations supporting ROADRUNNER, including a portion of cathode electrode manufacturing and the final process step in battery cell manufacturing.

Since then, we have been closely following the construction process, which is developing at a fast pace and should be ready for Battery Day on September 22nd.

@Mars4x4/Twitter noticed that Amprius has moved to a building that is right next to Tesla's aforementioned addresses, where battery cell development and production take place. Amprius' address is listed on its website as 1180 Page Avenue, Fremont, CA 94538 USA.

On the map, the location of all buildings looks like this:

6_9c157394-c259-440f-a23b-1dca43bb3c26_grande.jpg


10_48f11a0e-5663-431a-8e87-9f7a603eae4f_grande.jpg


The buildings are in close proximity to each other, which could indicate a cooperation. So what is so interesting about Amprius, such that it spurred some people to consider a potential Tesla partnership? Amprius' research and development is squarely focused on the silicon nanowire anode (what is possibly shown as the background of the announcement).

The main limiting factor of Lithium Ion (Li-ion) batteries is the amount of lithium that can be held in the battery’s electrodes. In conventional batteries, the negative electrode or anode is made of carbon in the form of graphite. Silicon has about 10 times the storage capacity as graphite, but it has a major drawback. Silicon swells dramatically when it is charged. There have been many attempts to use silicon in batteries, but this expansion causes the silicon to fracture and the battery fails.

In 2007, researchers at Stanford University discovered a solution to the problem associated with silicon in batteries. Using new techniques in nanotechnology, they were able to store lithium in tiny silicon nanowires.

9_e4ddab2a-8063-424c-85d3-09696fdd3b44_grande.jpg

Cross Sectional Image of Amprius Technologies' Silicon Nanowire Anode using a Scanning Electron Microscope

Amprius Technologies' 100% silicon nanowire batteries are a breakthrough technology that is revolutionizing the battery industry. With the highest energy density in the world, Amprius' battery tech can improve the performance of electric vehicles, aircraft, drones, and just about anything that uses a rechargeable battery. And if Tesla is really working with the company, then Battery Day should reveal even more exciting, unexpected details.
© 2020, Eva Fox. All rights reserved.
____________________________
 

Ehninger1212

Well-known member
First Name
Jake
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
469
Reaction score
639
Location
Houston, TX
Vehicles
Audi A3 E-Tron - 2005 Land Rover LR3 - T-Bucket - 1951 chevy 3100
Occupation
Architect/Fabricator
Country flag
Tesla has already improved battery technology so much, i cant wait to see what the next ten years hold now that they are even more capable.
 
OP
VolklKatana

VolklKatana

Well-known member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
287
Location
Madison, WI
Website
ts.la
Vehicles
2013 Tesla Model S 85, '06 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0si, Soon: Tri-Motor Cybertruck FSD
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
Sweet, I can't wait for battery day. Is there any idea how much battery density would increase with nanowires?
I had seen an estimate tied to Elon's comments about the electric Jet that thought it may be almost double! Ill see if i can track that down again....
 
OP
VolklKatana

VolklKatana

Well-known member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
287
Location
Madison, WI
Website
ts.la
Vehicles
2013 Tesla Model S 85, '06 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0si, Soon: Tri-Motor Cybertruck FSD
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
1,361
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
Is there any idea how much battery density would increase with nanowires?
Well the holy grail is 500 Wh/kg. In Elon's recent announcement he said the nanowire anodes should give 400 and the current Panasonics are evidently at 260 so 400/260 = 1.53846 --> 53.8%
 
OP
VolklKatana

VolklKatana

Well-known member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
287
Location
Madison, WI
Website
ts.la
Vehicles
2013 Tesla Model S 85, '06 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0si, Soon: Tri-Motor Cybertruck FSD
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
Well the holy grail is 500 Wh/kg. In Elon's recent announcement he said the nanowire anodes should give 400 and the current Panasonics are evidently at 260 so 400/260 = 1.53846 --> 53.8%
on the link i posted above, it says that Amprius's batteries (who Tesla is rumored to be partnering with) are at the 500Wh/hg threshold....wow, wouldnt that be something!
 

TyPope

Well-known member
First Name
Ty
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
566
Reaction score
542
Location
Papillion, NE
Vehicles
2013 Ford F350 Platinum, 2010 Toyota Prius, 2021 Tesla Cybertruck (reserved)
Occupation
Nuclear Operations Analyst
Country flag
So... Is Tesla more likely to increase range while keeping the battery packs the same size or will they decrease the size/weight of the battery packs while keeping the range the same which would, in turn, make the vehicle more efficient as it wouldn't be as heavy?
 
OP
VolklKatana

VolklKatana

Well-known member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
287
Location
Madison, WI
Website
ts.la
Vehicles
2013 Tesla Model S 85, '06 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0si, Soon: Tri-Motor Cybertruck FSD
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
So... Is Tesla more likely to increase range while keeping the battery packs the same size or will they decrease the size/weight of the battery packs while keeping the range the same which would, in turn, make the vehicle more efficient as it wouldn't be as heavy?
there are options right? They could slightly decrease size and weight and still increase mileage. They could also mix battery types with varying discharge recharge efficiencies? It's anyone's guess at this point!?
 

TyPope

Well-known member
First Name
Ty
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
566
Reaction score
542
Location
Papillion, NE
Vehicles
2013 Ford F350 Platinum, 2010 Toyota Prius, 2021 Tesla Cybertruck (reserved)
Occupation
Nuclear Operations Analyst
Country flag
there are options right? They could slightly decrease size and weight and still increase mileage. They could also mix battery types with varying discharge recharge efficiencies? It's anyone's guess at this point!?
I know, right? I'd like to see some kind of split battery pack where a portion of it could discharge extremely rapid to give a lot of power when you put the go pedal down... sort of like capacitors that charge up when they aren't being actively used and then they either discharge back to the batteries or to the motor to make you go. Then, there would be the portion that drives the car normally (like our current batteries but a bit more dense). Lastly, would be the solid state type of battery that is extremely dense in power but can't discharge it quickly. It would be able to do the constant speed stuff... I mean, a single battery pack that had all those attributes would be quite manageable but I'm actually hoping there is a single battery chemistry that gives us all of the big things: Lasts 1M+ miles, great resistance to temp changes, capable of very rapid charging, can discharge lots of power quickly for insane acceleration, packs more power for volume and weight, easy to manufacture, good to envioronment, and heck, while we're at it, uses material that doesn't require child labor/poor conditions/ environmental issues.
 

Ehninger1212

Well-known member
First Name
Jake
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
469
Reaction score
639
Location
Houston, TX
Vehicles
Audi A3 E-Tron - 2005 Land Rover LR3 - T-Bucket - 1951 chevy 3100
Occupation
Architect/Fabricator
Country flag
So... Is Tesla more likely to increase range while keeping the battery packs the same size or will they decrease the size/weight of the battery packs while keeping the range the same which would, in turn, make the vehicle more efficient as it wouldn't be as heavy?
Interesting concept.. because you will have less weight per same amount of kWh they should be able to achieve more range without changing battery capacity. So if they keep the long range at 322 miles per full charge they will have a significantly smaller, lighter and hopefully less expensive battery pack. This would be amazing!
 

CyberMoose

Well-known member
First Name
Jacob
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
303
Reaction score
354
Location
Canada
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Country flag
So... Is Tesla more likely to increase range while keeping the battery packs the same size or will they decrease the size/weight of the battery packs while keeping the range the same which would, in turn, make the vehicle more efficient as it wouldn't be as heavy?
I'm sure if they are able to do this with their batteries, they will do both. I used to work in transportation logistics and while it wasn't for personal vehicles, it's similar logic. I think for cars like the model 3, they would keep a standard range option that would be able to be cheaper. This allows them to tap into the more affordable market. On the other hand, they also offer long range options which could then just be the same space for batteries but with a much further range.

WIth the Cybertruck, I hope they keep all models the same battery size and just increase the range. I know some people will be buying the single motor and might not use it as a truck at all. But the Cybertruck will be a utility vehicle and I would hope someone with the single motor is still about to get at least a couple hundred miles while hauling some stuff in the back. I would love to see 1000km out of my trimotor if that's possible before it's delivered.
 
OP
VolklKatana

VolklKatana

Well-known member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
213
Reaction score
287
Location
Madison, WI
Website
ts.la
Vehicles
2013 Tesla Model S 85, '06 BMW Z4 Roadster 3.0si, Soon: Tri-Motor Cybertruck FSD
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
I'm sure if they are able to do this with their batteries, they will do both. I used to work in transportation logistics and while it wasn't for personal vehicles, it's similar logic. I think for cars like the model 3, they would keep a standard range option that would be able to be cheaper. This allows them to tap into the more affordable market. On the other hand, they also offer long range options which could then just be the same space for batteries but with a much further range.

WIth the Cybertruck, I hope they keep all models the same battery size and just increase the range. I know some people will be buying the single motor and might not use it as a truck at all. But the Cybertruck will be a utility vehicle and I would hope someone with the single motor is still about to get at least a couple hundred miles while hauling some stuff in the back. I would love to see 1000km out of my trimotor if that's possible before it's delivered.
i think this depends on the cost to build the pack....and if the cost in price per pack is worth having a second variant.
 

CyberMoose

Well-known member
First Name
Jacob
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
303
Reaction score
354
Location
Canada
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Country flag
i think this depends on the cost to build the pack....and if the cost in price per pack is worth having a second variant.
from pictures and a youtube video i seen that showed a Model S battery being taken apart, it seems they have numerous battery packs inside of a large housing that makes up the bottom of the car. I would assume that the battery packs for all cars would be pretty much the same size and the number added would depend on the option you choose for range.

This is just my assumption based on information from articles I read. I don't really know much about batteries, but if they already have different options for range, I could see Tesla having the same amount of options but allowing them to go a little cheaper for the same standard range, or allow people to pay more for insane range.
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
1,361
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
As the cell voltage is around 3.6 volts and as one of those little cells is only good for a small number of Ah it is clear that a whole lot (7,000?) of them are needed to make up a 100 kWh battery pack. The actual way in which they are assembled into modules depends on things like the way in which they are cooled, the way in which they are equalized and, obviously, the physical space into which they must fit. Clearly one can increase the capacity of the battery by adding more modules - in series for higher voltage; in parallel for higher current and they can be switched from series to parallel and back for high voltage charging but low voltage running.
 

Advertisement




Advertisement







 
Top