FINALLY 2022 Tesla Model Y Getting 4680 Battery & Other Updates!

[teslawolf9799]

Tesla may remain silent on the progress of its 4680 cells and structural battery packs, but the Model Y testing bodies recently seen at the Texas Gigafactory indicated that the launch of this innovative technology may be closer than expected.

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[CyberGus]

Initial gigafactory production was slated to use batteries shipped in. There is no public target date for Austin 4680 production AFAIK, other than “when it’s ready”.

 

[Klaxon]

Just wait.
The next after the whistle best seller from Tesla will be the flashlights with 4680 batteries.

 

[Bill906]

Just wait.
The next after the whistle best seller from Tesla will be the flashlights with 4680 batteries.

 

[Crissa]

No-one knows when these will be delivered. So not here yet.

-Crissa

 

[JeffnReno]

Since the 4680 is just a cell size format, does that mean that the structural pack couldn't be made with different cells like 2170? Seems like I read somewhere that the first Model Ys from the new factories would be using the 2170 cells until the newer 4680s could be produced on-site. We'll have to wait and see like most things Tesla. With 2170 already being used in the current Model Ys being produced, how they are packaged in a pack as a structural member or as modules inside a pack that is also a structural member probably wouldn't affect sales or usability very much. I do hope the new 4680 will provide more range and faster charge times but may not find that out for a while yet and at what price. The new cells were promoted as cost-saving along with the new manufacturing process so I'm dreaming of a longer-range Model Y at a lower price. Never hurts to dream, does it?

 

[morgantown]

Personally, I'd like to see 4680 LFP's.

 

[Crissa]

Since the 4680 is just a cell size format, does that mean that the structural pack couldn't be made with different cells like 2170? Seems like I read somewhere that the first Model Ys from the new factories would be using the 2170 cells until the newer 4680s could be produced on-site.

No, the 4680 form factor is what enables the structural battery pack. The 2170s would make the tessellation too flexy.

They plan on using 4680s from their Kato Road facility in Fremont, first, as they spin up the new factories. They just happen to have a backup plan of a compatible 2170 battery pack in case Kato couldn't spin up, but because of the other delays, it caught up and there's no known 4680 induced delay. This was discussed on the 2021 second quarter earnings call.

-Crissa

 

[anionic1]

Since the 4680 is just a cell size format, does that mean that the structural pack couldn't be made with different cells like 2170? Seems like I read somewhere that the first Model Ys from the new factories would be using the 2170 cells until the newer 4680s could be produced on-site. We'll have to wait and see like most things Tesla. With 2170 already being used in the current Model Ys being produced, how they are packaged in a pack as a structural member or as modules inside a pack that is also a structural member probably wouldn't affect sales or usability very much. I do hope the new 4680 will provide more range and faster charge times but may not find that out for a while yet and at what price. The new cells were promoted as cost-saving along with the new manufacturing process so I'm dreaming of a longer-range Model Y at a lower price. Never hurts to dream, does it?

The strength of any structural member is usually proportional to its moment of inertia. If you sliced the structural pack in half it’s more or less a rectangle. The moment of inertia in general for a rectangle is I=bh^3/12. Where h is the thickness of the rectangle. And you can see that as the h increases the moment of inertia increase to the third power. So that additional battery height greatly increases the strength of the pack. The same can be said for the round batteries. The shell of the battery has a similar attribute where the moment of inertia is proportional to the radius squared. So here going from a 21 diameter to a 46 gives the battery shell significant increase in strength. Just in case it’s not clear the batteries are structural adhered to the pack upper snd lower plate so they transfer the load and add significantly to the overall pack strength. So if you want to make a shape stronger you move it’s mass further out and you can typically get much more strength per added weight. Cylinders (batteries) especially benefit as they are one of the most efficient shapes. And as the shape grows it gains proportionally more interiors space per circumference. So the larger battery, although not more energy dense because it basically uses the same chemistry, will be able to pack proportionally more battery with not as much more shell so overall the pack should be slightly more energy dense.

 

[Ogre]

I believe 4680 packs will be filled with resin. So they entire pack becomes a single composite super-rigid structure.

All of this points to one of the massive downsides to pouch style batteries favored by GM and Ford. They change size and need room to breath. They cannot be turned into structural components, in fact just the opposite. Pouch cells are dead weight which must be contained and supported.

 

[Ogre]

Initial gigafactory production was slated to use batteries shipped in. There is no public target date for Austin 4680 production AFAIK, other than “when it’s ready”.

Though the drone shots suggest they are working super hard to get battery production fired up.

 

[anionic1]

I believe 4680 packs will be filled with resin. So they entire pack becomes a single composite super-rigid structure.

All of this points to one of the massive downsides to pouch style batteries favored by GM and Ford. They change size and need room to breath. They cannot be turned into structural components, in fact just the opposite. Pouch cells are dead weight which must be contained and supported.

I watched the promo video for the new Silverado EV and they acted like they revolutionized the battery pack but all they really did was put a bunch of their pouch’s in a different shaped frame

 

[Ogre]

I watched the promo video for the new Silverado EV and they acted like they revolutionized the battery pack but all they really did was put a bunch of their pouch’s in a different shaped frame

I think a big chunk of it is about ease of manufacturing. They have these sleds and they can drop different bodies on top of them. The Silverado is essentially the same truck as the Hummer. It's not a terrible idea to standardize your platforms... but when the underlying technology is so mediocre, it's going to be difficult to get anything compelling out the door.

 

[JeffnReno]

No, the 4680 form factor is what enables the structural battery pack. The 2170s would make the tessellation too flexy.

They plan on using 4680s from their Kato Road facility in Fremont, first, as they spin up the new factories. They just happen to have a backup plan of a compatible 2170 battery pack in case Kato couldn't spin up, but because of the other delays, it caught up and there's no known 4680 induced delay. This was discussed on the 2021 second quarter earnings call.

-Crissa

Hope you're right and that the 4680 proves to be all it's supposed to be. The Semi deliveries later this month may take quite a few of those available cells also.

 

[Ogre]

Hope you're right and that the 4680 proves to be all it's supposed to be. The Semi deliveries later this month may take quite a few of those available cells also.

They are only delivering ~15 semis to Pepsi for testing.

For what it’s worth, becoming clear Tesla is going to crush the semi market also. The noise around the semi has been a lot quieter, but the pricing and efficiency are going absolutely that the semi market by storm. Short term routes are such an easy target. Lots of trucks just drive 10-50 mile trips multiple trips in a day. Those are easy picking. If they can get FSD working and approval to extend driver hours or go driverless, long haul routes will be even more lucrative.

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