For retail customers, the lowest priced full-size pickup truck with 300mi range, Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER or Tesla Cybertruck?

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
574
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
Confirmed by Ford's North American communications manager
$50K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER (ER is 300mi battery option) is NOT available to retail customers

For retail customers, who will have the lowest priced full-size pickup truck with 300mi range?

Answer: Tesla Cybertruck DM at $50K (standard range 300mi with dent/scratch resistant cold rolled stainless steel exoskeleton, armor glass, adj suspension to 16", 6.5ft bed, tonneau vault, air compressor, 3,500 payload, tailgate with integrated ramp)

Next might be $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER (extended range 300mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).


Some EV Pickup Truck choices:

confirmed: $40K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro SR (standard range 230mi)
* available to corporate fleet customers and retail customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).

confirmed: $50K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER (extended range 300mi with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* NOT available to retail customers. Can only be bought by corporate fleet customers.

confirmed: $50K Tesla Cybertruck Dual Motor (standard range 300mi with dent/scratch resistant cold rolled stainless steel exoskeleton, armor glass, adj suspension to 16", 6.5ft bed, tonneau vault, air compressor, 3,500 payload, tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers.

confirmed: $53K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT SR (standard range 230mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).

rumor: $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER (extended range 300mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).


---------------------------

Ford confirms retail customers won’t be able to buy F-150 Lightning Pro with extended range battery
By Darryn John
May 29, 2021
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/fo...50-lightning-pro-with-extended-range-battery/
.....
Standard range is available to order for both retail and commercial customers, extended range is for commercial customers exclusively. Retail customers can enjoy the extended range XLT with more interior features like 15” screen, cloth seats and added driver technologies
— Elizabeth Kraft ( @ElizabethKraf12 - Ford North American communications manager ) May 28, 2021

---------------------------





Advertisement

 
Last edited:

CoyoteJim

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
144
Location
Carmichael
Vehicles
Model 3, BMW i3, Zero DS, Ford F250 Powerstroke
Occupation
Oracle Database Developer
Country flag
Confirmed by Ford's North American communications manager
$50K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER (ER is 300mi battery option) is NOT available to retail customers

For retail customers, who will have the lowest priced full-size pickup truck with 300mi range?

Answer: Tesla Cybertruck DM at $50K (standard range 300mi with dent/scratch resistant cold rolled stainless steel exoskeleton, armor glass, adj suspension to 16", 6.5ft bed, tonneau vault, air compressor, 3,500 payload, tailgate with integrated ramp)

Next might be $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER (extended range 300mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).


Some EV Pickup Truck choices:

confirmed: $40K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro SR (standard range 230mi)
* available to corporate fleet customers and retail customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).

confirmed: $50K Ford F-150 Lightning Pro ER (extended range 300mi with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* NOT available to retail customers. Can only be bought by corporate fleet customers.

confirmed: $50K Tesla Cybertruck Dual Motor (standard range 300mi with dent/scratch resistant cold rolled stainless steel exoskeleton, armor glass, adj suspension to 16", 6.5ft bed, tonneau vault, air compressor, 3,500 payload, tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers.

confirmed: $53K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT SR (standard range 230mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).

rumor: $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER (extended range 300mi, with easily dent/scratch-able aluminum body/bed but many colors, NO armor glass, NO adj suspension to 16", NO 6.5ft bed, NO tonneau bed cover, NO air compressor, NO 3,500 payload, NO tailgate with integrated ramp).
* Available to all customers (price only possible if dealers sell at MSRP or less).


---------------------------

Ford confirms retail customers won’t be able to buy F-150 Lightning Pro with extended range battery
By Darryn John
May 29, 2021
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/fo...50-lightning-pro-with-extended-range-battery/
.....
Standard range is available to order for both retail and commercial customers, extended range is for commercial customers exclusively. Retail customers can enjoy the extended range XLT with more interior features like 15” screen, cloth seats and added driver technologies
— Elizabeth Kraft ( @ElizabethKraf12 - Ford North American communications manager ) May 28, 2021

---------------------------
Yes that “fleet only” restriction on the Pro ER is really annoying. The big factor here is the ev tax credit. As it stands, you can subtract $7500 for each of the Ford trim levels (except the highest). However, the ev tax plan that just passed through the Senate would allow you to subtract $12,500 from the Lightning trim levels and $10,000 from the CTs.
 

Bob Anderson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
60
Reaction score
91
Location
USA
Vehicles
Hyundai Sonota
Country flag
As it stands, I have both CT DM and Lightning Pro SR on reservation. Will probably start w/ Ford understanding that it will only be a local driving vehicle, and then upgrade to CT for the ultimate travel vehicle.

Even though I wasn't planning on it, it's sad you can't get the 300 mile range Pro.
 
OP

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
574
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
Yes that “fleet only” restriction on the Pro ER is really annoying. The big factor here is the ev tax credit. As it stands, you can subtract $7500 for each of the Ford trim levels (except the highest). However, the ev tax plan that just passed through the Senate would allow you to subtract $12,500 from the Lightning trim levels and $10,000 from the CTs.
The difference between the
$50K Tesla Cybertruck Dual Motor 300mi and $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER 300mi is $8K.

The difference in EV tax credit/rebate might only be $2.5K so Cybertruck will still be much cheaper and there are many more important truck features with Cybertruck (not just more paint color choices & few cubes of frunk space).
 
Last edited:

CoyoteJim

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
144
Location
Carmichael
Vehicles
Model 3, BMW i3, Zero DS, Ford F250 Powerstroke
Occupation
Oracle Database Developer
Country flag
The difference between the
$50K Tesla Cybertruck Dual Motor 300mi and $58K Ford F-150 Lightning XLT ER 300mi is $8K.

The difference in EV tax credit/rebate might only be $2.5K so Cybertruck will still be much cheaper and there a many more important truck features with Cybertruck (not just more paint color choices & few cubes of frunk space).
I have a res for the CT DM. If only Ford has an ev tax credit I would consider the XLT ER if the real range is 400+ miles as is now being reported, but would probably stick with the CT for the reasons you list. If CT is going to qualify for a $10k tax credit I'm no longer considering the Ford and I'm probably switching the res to the TM.
 
OP

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
574
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
I have a res for the CT DM. If only Ford has an ev tax credit I would consider the XLT ER if the real range is 400+ miles as is now being reported, but would probably stick with the CT for the reasons you list. If CT is going to qualify for a $10k tax credit I'm no longer considering the Ford and I'm probably switching the res to the TM.
I highly doubt F-150 Lightning has 350-400mi range.
1. The reviewer who said they saw that does not understand how the truck's calculator creates the estimate. Most calculators use info from performance during previous trip. So for example the previous trip (especially the end of the trip) was on a long section of road going downhill where regen offsets usage the calculator would give a low watts/mile rate and thus high prediction for miles possible.

2. Tesla has been at forefront for best EVs & actually implementing the best battery tech. Elon, Tesla, SpaceX are the best company for recruiting the best EV & battery tech engineers in the world. Sandy Munro and others have recounted plenty of stories about the auto OEMs and what happens to the ideas of the best engineers. Is there any evidence that at this time Ford could beat Tesla at battery tech & also that Ford would not be broadcasting it to the world.

Unfortunately, if there is anyone that could meet or best Tesla it will probably be a Chinese auto company.
 

CoyoteJim

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
144
Location
Carmichael
Vehicles
Model 3, BMW i3, Zero DS, Ford F250 Powerstroke
Occupation
Oracle Database Developer
Country flag
I highly doubt F-150 Lightning has 350-400mi range.
1. The reviewer who said they saw that does not understand how the truck's calculator creates the estimate. Most calculators use info from performance during previous trip. So for example the previous trip (especially the end of the trip) was on a long section of road going downhill where regen offsets usage the calculator would give a low watts/mile rate and thus high prediction for miles possible.

2. Tesla has been at forefront for best EVs & actually implementing the best battery tech. Elon, Tesla, SpaceX are the best company for recruiting the best EV & battery tech engineers in the world. Sandy Munro and others have recounted plenty of stories about the auto OEMs and what happens to the ideas of the best engineers. Is there any evidence that at this time Ford could beat Tesla at battery tech & also that Ford would not be broadcasting it to the world.

Unfortunately, if there is anyone that could meet or best Tesla it will probably be a Chinese auto company.
The 4680 cells in the CT will be stellar; Sandy Munro did praise the pouch cells in the Lightning, however.
 
OP

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
574
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
The 4680 cells in the CT will be stellar; Sandy Munro did praise the pouch cells in the Lightning, however.
I understand that both Tesla 4680s & Ford battery tech are still technically vapor ware since neither is shipping. However Tesla has release a lot of info (battery day) about what has done, how, and what it expects to do. Ford has released very little. Sandy Munro is my absolute favorite Youtuber and I pass almost all his videos on to other engineers I know. I have seen videos of Sandy commenting on VW ID.4, Chevy Bolt, Teslas and make general comments about pouch batteries. Sandy has reservation for F-150 Lightning but has no truck to tear-down yet.
Do you have link to where Sandy said he has specific info on the F-150 Lightning battery?

In the video below, two times Sandy said if you were to buy Lightning to buy Platinum version if you want to NOT be dissatisfied.

I think his comments regarding pouch is that the type can be OK and that body on frame truck give room to more easily implement pouch batteries.
He did not say specifically that the Lightning battery is OK because he has not done a tear-down yet.

But again Tesla has released a lot more info about 4680s (how long was battery day reveal) so he can make "reasonably" educated guesses but Ford has not released anywhere close to the same level detail.

Electric F-150 Lightning: Sandys First Impressions
May 20, 2021
Munro Live
 
Last edited:

CoyoteJim

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
144
Location
Carmichael
Vehicles
Model 3, BMW i3, Zero DS, Ford F250 Powerstroke
Occupation
Oracle Database Developer
Country flag
I understand that both Tesla 4680s & Ford battery tech are still technically vapor ware since neither is shipping. However Tesla has release a lot of info (battery day) about what has done, how, and what it expects to do. Ford has released very little. Sandy Munro is my absolute favorite youtuber and I pass almost all his videos on to other engineers I know. I have seen videos of Sandy commenting on VW ID.4, Chevy Bolt, Teslas and make general comments about pouch batteries. Sandy has reservation for F-150 Lightning but has no truck to tear-down yet.
Do you have link to where Sandy said he has specific info on the F-150 Lightning battery?
Here is the link (about 3:10):
 
OP

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
574
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
Here is the link (about 3:10):

In the video, two times Sandy said if you were to buy Lightning to buy Platinum version if you want to NOT be dissatisfied.

I think his comments regarding pouch is that the pouch type can be OK and that body on frame truck gives plenty of room to more easily implement pouch batteries.

He did not say specifically that the Lightning battery is OK because he has not done a tear-down yet.

Tesla has released a lot more info about 4680s (how long was battery day reveal) so he can make "reasonably" educated guesses about specifically Tesla 4680s but Ford has not released anywhere close to the same level of detail so his comments are generic.
 

CoyoteJim

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
61
Reaction score
144
Location
Carmichael
Vehicles
Model 3, BMW i3, Zero DS, Ford F250 Powerstroke
Occupation
Oracle Database Developer
Country flag
I think his comments regarding pouch is that the pouch type can be OK and that body on frame truck gives plenty of room to more easily implement pouch batteries.

He did not say specifically that the Lightning battery is OK because he has not done a tear-down yet.
Quotes by Sandy from the video:

"...these innovations [referring to LG's pouch cells] are the right way to go."
"...from some of the pictures, it looks to me like they've done a good job. It'll probably be a closer competitor to Tesla on how they've done battery management than some of the other vehicles that we've seen so far."

Now, I'm not saying he thinks it's better tech than Tesla's, but he's doing a little more there than saying the type of tech Ford's SK batteries are using is just OK...
 
Last edited:
OP

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
535
Reaction score
574
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
Quotes by Sandy from the video:

"...these innovations [referring to LG's pouch cells] are the right way to go."
"...from some of the pictures, it looks to me like they've done a good job. It'll probably be a closer competitor to Tesla on how they've done battery management than some of the other vehicles that we've seen so far."

Now, I'm not saying he thinks it's better tech than Tesla's, but he's doing a little more there than saying the type of tech Ford's SK batteries are using is just OK...
Sandy's comment is more about Tesla competitors, and he is saying among the competitors, that right now he thinks Ford is ahead of the other Tesla competitors in the "competition is coming" pack. He said that Ford is going in the right direction not that Ford is even close to Tesla.

Ford is using LG Chem in Mustang Mach-e. SK Innovation the battery supplier for F-150 Lightning has been convicted of stealing LG Chem tech. I have not seen anything to indicate that SK innovation is anything other than just a clone of LG Chem tech that is used in Mustang Mach-e that started shipping four months ago.

In the video below that I believe was made several days after the F-150 Lightning reveal, Sandy says he thinks Tesla has increased their lead and is now 8 years ahead of the competition.

Interviewer asks Sandy, "Should Tesla worry?"
Sandy answers "NOoooo"

Sandy Munro Rethinks Tesla's Dominance
May 27, 2021
E for Electric
 
Last edited:

Diehard

Well-known member
First Name
D
Joined
Dec 5, 2020
Messages
712
Reaction score
1,260
Location
U.S.A.
Vehicles
Olds Aurora V8, Saturn Sky redline, Frontier, CT2
Country flag
Even as is, if you go through everything that comes with CT and pick the same options on lightening, you will pay a lot more. Elon has seen F150 reveal and unless major modification is needed (like to the cast), he will make sure CT remains a clear choice for most. The only one he may not want to challenge may be Pro. Lower Trims of both trucks are most likely the least profitable and if Elon is having problem catching up with the existing demand for CT and really want to accelerate electrification, he probably want as many Lightening Pros sold as possible.

Unlike Sandy, I think Platinum at $90K is not the most compelling Lightening choice. Pro however may get the attention of a lot of truck shoppers and fleet owners that otherwise would only look at ICE as an option. A lot of them don't like a big ass thin tablet slapped on the dash when they are moving around heavy metal objects, or a uni brow funky light on the front to give their coworkers something to pick on. It is all wheel drive. It still have some power for tools or one or two items at home during outage, have two rows and my favorite, a spare tire ;) At $27.5K or lower after Federal and state incentives the only obstacle will be Fords ability and willingness to produce. If CT1 is only produced after all CT2 and CT3 demands are satisfied, folks may be comparing a dual motor Pro with incentive with a single motor CT1 without. I still have my doubts Ford can produce Pro at that price in large numbers but if they can, I think Elon should leave it alone and stick with producing as many CT2 and CT3s as possible.

For me CT is a feel good truck and Lightening is a compromise truck. I consider CT2 the sweet spot for CT and Pro the sweet spot for F150. If I know I can get a CT2 at advertised price even a year later than a Pro, I will figure out a way to wait but if it is longer or unknown when Ford is asking me to pull the trigger and tax brakes are in play at that time, I may have to crush my dreams and go for the half price truck.
 

Ehninger1212

Well-known member
First Name
Jake
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
873
Reaction score
1,573
Location
Houston, TX
Vehicles
Audi A3 E-Tron - 2005 Land Rover LR3 - T-Bucket - 1951 chevy 3100
Occupation
Architect/Fabricator
Country flag
Yes that “fleet only” restriction on the Pro ER is really annoying. The big factor here is the ev tax credit. As it stands, you can subtract $7500 for each of the Ford trim levels (except the highest). However, the ev tax plan that just passed through the Senate would allow you to subtract $12,500 from the Lightning trim levels and $10,000 from the CTs.
Where did you read fleet only for the Pro model?
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top