Ford has officially raised their Lightning pricing

[jerhenderson]

This must really upset Bodi and Tom and FreedomEV.....

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[Throwcomputer]

define conflict country.

Let me rephrase cause when I initially read about this new credit program I swear they described the battery mineral requirement as not coming from countries that are considered" conflict zones" or something like that.

Now I read this requirement being discussed as "that materials and “critical minerals” in the battery must come from the US or a country with a free trade agreement with the US."

So to rephrase the question, what percentage of the minerals mined for usage in the manufacture of Tesla batteries meets the requirement?

I assume this is the sticking point for Tesla vehicles actually qualifying for these credits, and that currently Tesla's would not qualify on day one of the credit program due to this. But I just don't know and don't see any discussion on the details of Tesla mineral sources.

 

[greggertruck]

230 mi range is a tough pill to swallow for $46k when there are better options out there in the vicinity of that price. Reminder, total Lightning sales so far == 4,400 through July, with only approximately 200k reservations. Not a confident statement of their commitment to this brand.

Fixed that for you…

 

[Throwcomputer]

Fixed that for you…

My mistake. Glanced at the article and misread 7700 for f-150 sales when in fact that read the total sum of all Ford ev sales. Even more damning for them and their level of commitment to the technology.

 

[charliemagpie]

What I came across recently was some innuendo FUD alluding Tesla was dealing with its issues in doing business with countries who had a question mark over their practices.

Instead of saying: " Tesla is the instigator and is leading the way", it left a trail of FUD

 

[ED_SFO]

My thinking is that Tesla is smart not mentioning the price until all the dust is cleared with these rebates, inflation and chip shortage issues. What this really means is that Tesla will prob do the same thing. There is not a single ev truck that will be under 70k with at least 300 mile range.

Hopefully Tesla could setup a separate financing that we can tack the accessories onto like the solar tonneau and still qualify for the rebate.

 

[RVAC]

Ford is not expected to reach the 200k qualifying vehicles sold until later this year or early 2023. That would trigger cutting the older tax credit as follows: full credit for two quarters, cut in half to $3750 for two quarters, cut in half again to $1875 for two quarters, and nothing after that. Most of Ford's qualifying sales were "wasted" on hybrids before the Mach-E even existed.

Tesla reached the 200k qualifying vehicles milestone first in July of 2018, followed by GM in December 2019, followed by Toyota in June 2022. Toyota will still qualify for the full tax rebate until end of September 2022, half of the rebate until March 2023, a quarter of the rebate until September 2023, and no tax rebate in October 2023 and after. The next company to reach the milestones will be Ford, followed by Nissan or BMW.

Keep in mind that all the info above is about the older federal tax credit that goes to a qualifying customer when they do their federal income tax returns. The new EV incentives work differently and are separate from the older tax credits, so some manufacturers that lagged behind in EVs or hybrids will have the advantage of qualifying for both the old and new incentives.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/what-you-need-know-about-federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out

https://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-...n-be-exempt-from-the-full-federal-tax-credit/

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/06/toyota-joins-tesla-and-gm-in-losing-federal-ev-tax-credits.html

https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/f...pects-ev-tax-credits-to-dry-up-by-early-2023/

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

The old EV credit will cease to exist once the new one is introduced so they won't be able to take advantage of both.

 

[Crissa]

Yes, but over 2k of those Lightning deliveries were in July alone, so they are ramping up.

Going to have to more than quadruple that number to hit their existing reservation list before the next model is supposed to come out.

-Crissa

 

[CostcoSamples]

Exactly as any retard could have predicted... tax credit only serves to raise prices and lengthen wait times. For Canadians its a double whammy as we now pay more taxes on the more expensive vehicle. If government wanted to actually help they would facilitate resource extraction and processing.

 

[android04]

The old EV credit will cease to exist once the new one is introduced so they won't be able to take advantage of both.

Just curious, is that listed in the terms of the new bill, because I haven't heard about it yet? It does make sense not to have two concurrent incentives, but I just hadn't heard anything about the previous one going away.

 

[Throwcomputer]

Just curious, is that listed in the terms of the new bill, because I haven't heard about it yet? It does make sense not to have two concurrent incentives, but I just hadn't heard anything about the previous one going away.

Yes, the way they write these bills is to amend the existing previous bill. So if you amend the existing bill to have completely different credits and requirements, then the old bill's credits and requirements cease to exist.

 

[Halemarine]

That’s it, I’m cancelling my Ford reservation and going with the Cybertruck.

I canceled mine F150 reservation three months ago. I'll wait to see what Elon gives us.

 

[Quicksilver]

Ford announces $3.7 billion investment to build electric ... - CNN

I'm no MENSA member but I can do basic math.
Ford could be selling their vehicles for 100K and will still lose money until production is fully ramped up (at plants that haven't been built) and there is enough demand to keep them rolling off the line.
As they are ramping up EV's they will be losing ICE vehicle sales.
At some point they will not be making any money on either vehicle type.
At this point they either go bankrupt or are bailed out to save the UAW jobs.
I don't see a happy ending for legacy automakers and new EV startups unless investors or the government pours money in until they can make quality vehicles at a price Joe Public can afford and wants to buy.

 

[cybguy]

Translation,
"We are not going to give you the ev credit. We are going to raise price accordingly so we can keep credit for ourselves".

Ford Lightening buyers was already getting the $7500 tax credit. The new bill will limit this to vehicles less than $80,000. The Lightening was priced to compete with the original listed Cybertruck pricing. Now that Cybertruck are going up in price it gives Ford room to increase their prices as well.

 

[GnarlyDudeLive]

The way I read it was the new EV tax break required that the 40% percent of the EV batteries minerals come from US mining or recycling to qualify....

" Starting in 2024, only EVs with at least 40 percent of their minerals from the United States or nations with U.S. free trade agreements, or with materials recycled in North America, would be able to take full advantage of the reconciliation bill’s incentive. Cars would also need components manufactured in North America" - https://www.eenews.net/articles/how-manchin-kneecapped-the-climate-bills-ev-tax-credit/

It's a ding for sure if you planned on the incentive but its forces the US to get with the program and be less dependent on other nations for critical minerals and being effected by geopolitical disruptions. Perhaps this can offset some of the job losses with new jobs as well? Obviously not needing to transport materials tens of thousands of miles has costs as well but doubtfully enough to make up for US labor costs.

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