Luke42

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Elon compared the CT vs the ICE F150 not with other EV. Why are other EV manufacturer want to compete with Tesla. They are having the wrong ideal. Tesla is working to sustainable future with EV replacing ICE cars.
The disconnect that I see with a lot of people who haven't paid attention to how things work in Flyover Country is that the F-150 serves a LOT of market segments.

1. "Lifestyle truck": eg RVs and outdoors entheusiast. The suburban dad who tows a boat or RV.
2. Brodozer: Looking badass with the performance to match.
3. Work truck: Hundreds of sub-segments, with different towing/hauling requirements and bolt-on equipment for each kind of job.
4. Fleet truck: Similar to work-truck, but purchased by the employer.

There are dozens of variants of every Ford, GM, and RAM truck targeted at all of these segments. For Ford Raptor is a very different truck than the F150XL, even though they have a lot in common under the hood.

Tesla is building something dramatically different than the incumbents (as they should), but it's unlikely that their unusual truck is going to be all things to all people the way the F-series trucks are.

Given what we know about the Cybertruck, it will be be extremely good at the first two segments (with the likely exception of 5th wheel towing for the RV folks). These are big segments, and you really can build a business selling vehicles just to these two segments.

We don't know how good the Cybertruck will be for #3 and #4. The Cybertruck is likely to be a little hit-and-miss there, and will likely be a good fit for some work/fleet jobs, a poor fit for others. We also know that Ford, GM, and FCA have a century of expertise in serving all of these markets with a single vehicle platform, and they have all of the market research to understand these customers. Silicon Valley machismo aside, competing here would play to the incumbent's strengths, and Tesla's weaknesses -- and so having Tesla focus on segments #1 and #2 is a pretty smart move. They can learn how to serve the work/fleet customers while they're building and selling Cybertrucks to the rest of us.

Keep in mind that the vehicles most similar to the Cybertruck are the Chevy Avalanche and the Honda Ridgeline. They're both designed exclusively for the "lifestyle" market, and they both achieved their design goals for the most part. But neither one have stolen much in the way of sales from conventional full-sized pickup trucks. Tesla's improved towing capacity and performance will help expand its audience, though.

There will be room in the market for Tesla, Ford, GM, and RAM/FCA for now. After they start making Cybertrucks, my prediction that Tesla will create a bunch of Cyber platform variants in different sizes and shapes which serve the other market niches.
 

Crissa

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Keep in mind that the vehicles most similar to the Cybertruck are the Chevy Avalanche and the Honda Ridgeline. They're both designed exclusively for the "lifestyle" market, and they both achieved their design goals for the most part. But neither one have stolen much in the way of sales from conventional full-sized pickup trucks. Tesla's improved towing capacity and performance will help expand its audience, though.
And, you know, it's electric so it has massively reduced fuel costs and maintenance schedule. As well as environmental cachet.

-Crissa
 

Luke42

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And, you know, it's electric so it has massively reduced fuel costs and maintenance schedule. As well as environmental cachet.
The vast majority of existing pickup truck owners I've known make a sport of dismissing fuel costs, maintenance costs, and especially the environmental impact of their trucks.

As for me, these issues all drove me away from pickup ownership and toward minivan ownership for about a decade. I'm back, and there's story there -- but my automotive life story is a little offtopic.

These advantages to the Cybertruck will bring new pickup buyers into the market. This will also bring back former pickup owners who didn't like those aspects of owning a pickup truck [🙋‍♂️]. But a lot of "traditional" truck buyers I know from Rural America make a sport of not caring about these things, and are unlikely to be swayed by fuel savings or environmental benefits.

P.S. My stepsister tried to tell me in the late 2000s that it was our patriotic duty to buy as much fuel as possible in order to support the economy. 🤦‍♂️ I don't know if she still believes that argument or not, because I stopped talking to her about that stuff -- several of my classmates went to war in Iraq, and oil was part of that. She still lives in Rural America and drives a lot of miles in low-MPG vehicles; I do not do either of those things when I can help it.
 
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Crissa

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The vast majority of existing pickup truck owners I've known make a sport of dismissing fuel costs, maintenance costs, and especially the environmental impact of their trucks.
...And I was replying to a comment that suggested that the Cybertruck brought little to fleet buyers. Tho the post was long and I cut that out oops.

-Crissa
 

Luke42

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...Amd I was replying to a comment that suggested that the Cybertruck brought little to fleet buyers. Tho the post was long and I cut that out oops.
Yeah, I'm making that same mistake about not specifying what market segment of pickup truck owners I'm talking about. My bad.

I was talking about rural lifestyle buyers who enjoy "owning the libs" by wasting fuel an' shit. They just don't care, and some of them enjoy getting in your face about it.

Fleet buyers do care lower fuel/maintenance costs.

But the rest of the vehicle has to match their exact needs. Here's a used Silverado Hybrid:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/819386299/overview/

This one is lightly customized (many of them have the backseat removed and replaced with storage drawers), and uses a standard-ish cap (with the tailgate removed). But can see the degree to which the cargo area has been customized to match the previous owner's business process. I test drove a truck like this when I was shopping for my Sierra, and they're mostly retired Verizon trucks.

You could probably figure out how to do this with the Cybertruck, but it would would be a process involving an engineer and a couple of MBAs. Especially for Verizon.

What does that do to the fleet operator's value proposition? Donno, but transitioning to a different truck design can be a big deal.
 

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On the other hand, Terminix used to use Ford Rangers with caps, because they just needed to keep the pesticide separate from the people. I bet the CT would handle that easily without modification. (One of my college friends is an entomologist who went to go work for Terminix.)

It really depends on how well the truck can be customized to the task the fleet does.
 

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The extra storage in the Cybertruck might make it cheaper, too.

But the long time to delivery may keep it out of fleet hands for quite awhile.

-Crissa
 

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I do specialized machine service and I occasionally need to move one around, but besides that I'm hoping my CT will fully replace my F350 super duty with service boxes.

Right now the only thing I figure I'm really liking with the CT is a lift gate and a bed that I don't care about occasionally covering in oil. Really though for the odd off roading I need to do to get to a winery, it'll be miles better to drive. I guess I'm an anomaly as far as work trucks go.

I also average about 80 miles of driving a day, so I'll never have to stop for fuel ever again, which sounds amazing and will be a massive savings over the life of the vehicle.
 
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TI4Dan

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Not to be argumentative at all, but you absolutely need flat side rails for 5th wheel travel trailers and you also do need flat sides when turning a gooseneck. The flanges of the gooseneck come close to crunching flat side rails if there is any off camber activity between the the truck and the trailer when turning. I've watched and seen it come within an inch or two on my current truck. My eyes got as big as saucers as I gingerly made some of those turns and I sold the gooseneck for this very reason. I wasn't comfortable taking the gooseneck on rough dirt roads that present off-camber situations. The sail design of the CT would absolutely interfere and get crunched in this scenario. I'm not saying that different designs couldn't potentially alleviate this issue, but current 5th wheel towing and gooseneck towing setups will not be compatible with the CT prototype.
Having said that, it is a digression from the point: nobody tows these types of trailers with their 1/2 ton pickup anyway. If they are towing these types of trailers it is most often with a 3/4 ton single axle or 1 ton dually. If it is a dedicated tow vehicle, then the bed is commonly a flat bed. The CT will have great utility and do anything a 1/2 ton regularly does but better. It will do almost everything a 3/4 ton does but better. It will do a lot of things neither of those do well in their stock form. I just wouldn't buy a CT and expect it to be my tow rig for a gooseneck horse trailer, but I wouldn't buy a F-150 for that either.
For the VP of Ford trucks to say the CT won't be a very capable work truck is pure FUD, but I don't fault him for it. They should lean on brand recognition as hard as they can until they can catch back up in capability. I just happen to think the pure form follow function design of the CT is going to make it hard to catch when it comes to utility and functionality. I would really enjoy others to catch up. It means truck guys could have tons of options and we all would benefit.
You have accurately stated the truth about 5th wheel trailer issues, I also have towed 5th wheels for 10 years and to make a turn in a dirt lot, watch for potholes or uneven ground while making a tight turn, I have stopped and got out of my truck to make sure I would not make contact with bed rail. I would like to mention that the RV industry is making 5th wheel trailers for 1/2 ton trucks now. I personally would not use a 1/2 ton truck for that type of work, a heavy duty diesel is more appropriate for the load and is built for heavy duty use with components that are bigger in steering, suspension, brakes, frame, cooling system, drive train. I push my diesel truck to it's limit but, not intentionally. I sold my 5th wheel and bought a truck camper for my 2004 2500 Dodge.
The camper I bought was made in Canada for the cold weather up in the north where I live.
It's not big but, very heavy at over 3500 lbs for a 8.5 foot camper. I had to make so many changes to my truck so it would safely take the load plus a trailer. I have weighted my truck at the scales and it came in at 12,700 lbs, this does not include my trailer. It is past the original truck rating but not past axle rating. Now I am using a dually wheels in the rear for tire ratings and stability reasons. I have seen the Atlis truck design on their website, it seems they plan to make real work trucks that are electric powered. So far I have not seen anyone else with EV truck designs to address the 1 ton truck class. I have seen so many truck accidents or trucks ruined from improper truck size selection. I have seen many 1/2 ton trucks with bent frames from overloading. I think trucks can be serious business because of its abilities to move heavy loads. Trucks can be a lifestyle , for me I see utility and recreation use. Not one of my older gas truck can do what my diesel does everyday without complaint. I am hoping for a EV truck that is just as capable. I hope Ford makes a successful EV truck as also GM is getting ready for production, I can't wait to see what comes to market,
 

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