FSD Beta v9 v10 or any FSD Beta & children in car

CyberMoose

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Maybe.
I have a problem with the idea of having FSD on is safer than not having it on, especially so if Tesla themselves say we should be paranoid about using it. If it wasn't beta then it would be different. The difference is that FSD beta is adding a potential complication and you won't be warmed in advance when. It is adding another set of variables for the driver to respond too that they wouldn't normally have to consider.
Well even without beta, FSD can make lane changes on the highway as well without us confirming it. It will obviously follow the road if there is a curve, it will slow down or speed up if traffic speeds are changing. It's always possible that the software could make a mistake or hardware could fail and cause a deadly collision.

The FSD beta is for non-highway use, if you drive on the highway, the car will run the public software version. The biggest changes for the beta is turning on city streets which wouldn't really need to give much of a warning since you would know if a turn is coming up on your route. The only video I seen where the FSD didn't follow the route is when a road was closed and the car couldn't go that way so it recalculated the route.

When level 3/4/5 comes around and we don't have to supervise the driving, we will just have to be ready to take over or not even need to be in the car at all with 4/5. At that point, the car is still going to sometimes encounters something that it has never experienced before. It's not always going to make the absolute perfect maneuver, but as long as it's safe, I think that will be good enough. From what i've seen with the beta, that's what I like about it. Drives on wide city roads with moderate traffic, easy turns, lots of visibility; the car seems to handle it perfectly. But on drives in more awkward neighborhoods with bad visibility for turns, I see the beta having a hard time, but when it has a hard time, it slows town and proceeds very cautiously. I think the biggest improvements i've seen with the FSD system over the years is it's confidency. Whenever it does something new like when it first started lane changing, stopping for signs and lights, making turns, it seemed like it was someones first time driving. But with time, each of those things have improved and even turns are taken much quicker with the newest update.
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Crissa

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Well even without beta, FSD Enhanced Autopilot can make lane changes on the highway as well without us confirming it
Anyhow, the truth of the matter is, your eyes are always leaving the road. To check GPS, to check speed, to check your corners. Having auto assistance tools active means that the car isn't taking its eyes off, even as you check your corners and update your 360 awareness.

Two heads are better than one. Even when one of those is a computer that doesn't have its driver's license yet.

-Crissa
 

JBee

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Anyhow, the truth of the matter is, your eyes are always leaving the road. To check GPS, to check speed, to check your corners. Having auto assistance tools active means that the car isn't taking its eyes off, even as you check your corners and update your 360 awareness.

Two heads are better than one. Even when one of those is a computer that doesn't have its driver's license yet.

-Crissa
Where does Tesla claim that FSD being "Full Self Driving" is a "driver assist"??

Your statement is false on all counts.

If you want a "driver assist" that works buy a 10 year old merc.
 

JBee

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Well even without beta, FSD can make lane changes on the highway as well without us confirming it. It will obviously follow the road if there is a curve, it will slow down or speed up if traffic speeds are changing. It's always possible that the software could make a mistake or hardware could fail and cause a deadly collision.

The FSD beta is for non-highway use, if you drive on the highway, the car will run the public software version. The biggest changes for the beta is turning on city streets which wouldn't really need to give much of a warning since you would know if a turn is coming up on your route. The only video I seen where the FSD didn't follow the route is when a road was closed and the car couldn't go that way so it recalculated the route.

When level 3/4/5 comes around and we don't have to supervise the driving, we will just have to be ready to take over or not even need to be in the car at all with 4/5. At that point, the car is still going to sometimes encounters something that it has never experienced before. It's not always going to make the absolute perfect maneuver, but as long as it's safe, I think that will be good enough. From what i've seen with the beta, that's what I like about it. Drives on wide city roads with moderate traffic, easy turns, lots of visibility; the car seems to handle it perfectly. But on drives in more awkward neighborhoods with bad visibility for turns, I see the beta having a hard time, but when it has a hard time, it slows town and proceeds very cautiously. I think the biggest improvements i've seen with the FSD system over the years is it's confidency. Whenever it does something new like when it first started lane changing, stopping for signs and lights, making turns, it seemed like it was someones first time driving. But with time, each of those things have improved and even turns are taken much quicker with the newest update.
No worries with "the other side of beta" or next level of FSD.

But we're specifically talking about FSD beta and having children aboard at the same time.
 

Bkent100

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Something that has been bother me for a while is FSD drivers who make videos with children in the vehicle.

Even though driver is monitoring the car and might take over there is inherently a delay in response that in a split second situation that could make difference between there being an accident.

Another thing is the child might require attention or distract the driver just when FSD Beta makes a mistake and the human driver monitoring beta misses clues or is too slow to react.


I have seen some with a father & toddler (or infant) and other similar situations.
I stop watching any video where I find children are passengers in beta driven cars.

I consider driving a car with Beta software child endangerment.

Children can also not give consent.

Another related situation is when both spouses (or both caregivers) of children are in a beta driven vehicle. Even if children are not in car if there was an serious accident the children would lose all their primary caregivers.

I think Tesla should explicitly warn Tesla owners to not have children in car when FSD beta is being used.

I want FSD to be tested & become a finished product as soon as possible.

Another thing from Tesla business perspective is the huge bad publicity Tesla would get if there was a bad accident with a FSD Beta car that had children in the car.
Put simply...I'd never do it...the only other company that is worse regarding rolling out betas before their time is Microsoft...not much physical danger to humans from that. I don't think Tesla really factors in the general stupidity of the male species when they roll out these betas...
 


Crissa

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Where does Tesla claim that FSD being "Full Self Driving" is a "driver assist"??
...In their description of the current Beta, their description of the current released 'Enhanced Autopilot' features, the description of the features currently available from an FSD purchase...?

Why the anger? The topic is the current Beta, which is a driver assistance program. It doesn't have its driver's license yet.

-Crissa
 

SwampNut

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"What if the computer makes a mistake" is laughable considering all the human mistakes that cause hundreds of deaths every day. Statistically, the kids in the self driving car are in less danger than one driven by their meatbag-based parents.
 
OP
OP

firsttruck

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"What if the computer makes a mistake" is laughable considering all the human mistakes that cause hundreds of deaths every day. Statistically, the kids in the self driving car are in less danger than one driven by their meatbag-based parents.
--------------------------------
Elon Musk @elonmusk 8:18 PM · Jul 8, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
Beta 9 addresses most known issues "from Beta 8", but there will be unknown issues, so please be paranoid.
--------------------------------
Tesla Full Self-Driving Beta v9 Release Notes
“Full Self-Driving is in early limited access Beta and must be used with additional caution.

*** It may do the wrong thing at the worst time, ***

so you must always keep your hands on the wheel and pay extra attention on the road. Do not become complacent. When Full Self-Driving is enabled your vehicle will make lane changes off highway, select forks to follow your navigation route, navigate around other vehicles and objects, and make left and right turns. Use Full Self-Driving in limited BETA only if you will pay constant attention to the road, and be prepared to act immediately, especially around blind corners, crossing intersections, and in narrow driving situations.”
--------------------------------

Hmmm

Where are these statistic that show FSD Beta operated on city streets intersection & city street traffic controls (not limited separated highways/interstates) is better than human driver ???
 

Crissa

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Where are these statistic that show FSD Beta operated on city streets intersection & city street traffic controls (not limited separated highways/interstates) is better than human driver ???
The statistic is that the assistance features (including FSD) plus a human driver is safer than a human driver alone.

https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

-Crissa
 

FullyGrounded

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I will no longer drive with a child in the car. I may get distracted. Silly. We have done this since cars have been around. No real calamity. peace
 


OP
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firsttruck

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The statistic is that the assistance features (including FSD) plus a human driver is safer than a human driver alone.

https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

-Crissa
Are there statistics for operation on city streets intersection & city street traffic controls (not limited separated highways/interstates) separate from stats for limited separated highways/interstates?
 

Crissa

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Are there statistics for operation on city streets intersection & city street traffic controls (not limited separated highways/interstates) separate from stats for limited separated highways/interstates?
They only released some really vague data a couple quarters ago on an earnings call. They said they hadn't had any accidents in that mode specifically, and had removed a user for not paying sufficient attention (if only they would do that for regular consumers)

https://www.torquenews.com/11826/el...ot-paying-attention-removed-and-no-more-radar

-Crissa
 

SwampNut

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Last week I was screamed at by another driver for having my hands off the wheel. Ironically, she'd been driving like a moron passing, then slowing, then passing, then swerving. And miles later, my FSD car on chill mode passed her and she was PISSED.
 
OP
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firsttruck

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FSD Beta is like a teenager learning to drive. They & FSD Beta can do something unexpected at any time.

As the FSD Beta safety driver you do know what it might do next and there is a response time delay between the Beta's action and when you as a human can respond.

Safety drivers are spending more time not watching the road because they are watching Beta on central screen to see what it is thinking.
I would be much better if Beta projections where done as a HUD (heads up display) image for drivers.


Just as a note, Chuck Cook in the video below is a current profession airline pilot & knows what it is like to be in high-speed environments where planning ahead is critical because there are many situations if you realize too late it is too late.


----------------------------


FSDBeta Safety Video - Prospective New FSD Beta Users Please Watch and Share!
Sep 23, 2021
Chuck Cook


----------------------------
 
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CyberRich

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I 100% agree with OP. I recently saw one of the new FSD Youtubers that wanted to get an early video of a recent beta release posted. He had his wife and infant in the car and was distracted by the infant multiple times while FSD was engaged and commentating on the video. What a nightmare. Tesla should yank his beta access. These guys get their priorities out of whack trying to get Youtube famous. Very sad.
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