FSD Beta v9 v10 or any FSD Beta & children in car

tmeyer3

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It's possible that a child will distract the driver at a time that FSD might make a mistake. It's also possible that a child will distract the driver at a time that another driver on the road makes a mistake.
Well, beta drivers are required to be ready to make decisions at ANY time, just like with regular driving. So this is true no matter FSD beta or manual driving. I'm unsure there's really a difference. They're required to be attentive and ready to take over at all times, so I guess you could add, "but be extra attentive if there's kids in the car!" But I mean... isn't that a little asinine? There's an inherent risk when driving, that's no different with or without FSD Beta.
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tmeyer3

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How can system based on high-res cameras miss huge concrete pillars/columns???

Is every concrete pillar/column in the world a individual edge/ corner case ???
The system isn't based on high-res cameras, it's based on AI. Neural nets must be added to and all data carefully labelled to make them work for the intended purpose. This isn't a problem with cameras or their resolution, but is simply a gap in the data--and is easily fixable if the net is built correctly.

And no, they do not need to catalog every pillar in the world because this isn't an "edge" case at all. They need to improve the net's confidence of what is a wall or immovable object like a pillar. These specific pillars are not reaching that confidence level, so they aren't registering. This can be trained out with relative ease.

This is exactly why it is being tested and drivers are instructed to be extremely careful. Finding holes like this is good thing from a software engineering perspective and will improve the robustness of the product.

Children should not be in a car that is in FSD BETA mode!!!
lol... as if my kid would want to sit out while testing cool AI stuff, riiiiiiight. I'm gonna take my kid along and inspire him with FSD beta.
 
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ajdelange

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It's interesting to look at the video second by second. Watch the "feeler" that goes out in front of the car. That's showing you where it is planning to go. In no case did I see it indicating that it was going to head into a pilar. It would go close to a pilar and then, when the vehicle got a little closer straighten out and show that it planned to go between two pillars. That said would I have grabbed the wheel when the driver did? YBYSA I would!

Of course it sees the pillars. Both with the camera(s) and the sonar. It just doesn't choose to display them.
 

SHorzy

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just did twenty hours of highway driving and I can honestly say I can’t wait for FSD to make kids and everybody safer. Saw at least 20 morons who can’t see more than 20 feet in front of themselves. So stupidly slow to think ahead and make good decisions. I mean when you are on a two lane heading up hill and are approaching a Semi with hazards on, should you not think duhhhh get in other lane when safe before getting right to the semi and having to pound on brakes or cut someone off in fast lane? so many instances… So many ppl suck at driving. FSD will hopefully remove these drivers. FSD is Not the problem, rather the solution!! Luckily Tesla has good Beta testers to get us all there.
 

Crissa

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...but found it odd that it suggested a U turn at a 3 lane controlled intersection. Is that legal anywhere?
This is legal in California. U-turns are only disallowed:

within 500' of oncoming traffic
across double-double lines
across curbs and medians
where your vehicle won't make the turn safely
where marked

I understand this is different when you're in a state not in the west.

-Crissa
 

CyberGus

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I think children are safer in a Tesla running FSD with the driver blindfolded, than in basically any other car.

Might depend on the quality of road being traversed lol
 

CyberMoose

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Well, beta drivers are required to be ready to make decisions at ANY time, just like with regular driving. So this is true no matter FSD beta or manual driving. I'm unsure there's really a difference. They're required to be attentive and ready to take over at all times, so I guess you could add, "but be extra attentive if there's kids in the car!" But I mean... isn't that a little asinine? There's an inherent risk when driving, that's no different with or without FSD Beta.
The fact that it's dangerous with our without FSD beta is actually my point. I would rather have full self driving beta on with kids in the car than be driving a car with no automation at all. I've seen lots of videos of Teslas serving to avoid a collision and I think that's a feature that I won't want to live without once I have kids. Yes there is always going to be a risk of the system making a mistake, beta or not, but statistically speaking, a tesla is far far far more likely to prevent a collision than it is to cause one.
 

JBee

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The fact that it's dangerous with our without FSD beta is actually my point. I would rather have full self driving beta on with kids in the car than be driving a car with no automation at all. I've seen lots of videos of Teslas serving to avoid a collision and I think that's a feature that I won't want to live without once I have kids. Yes there is always going to be a risk of the system making a mistake, beta or not, but statistically speaking, a tesla is far far far more likely to prevent a collision than it is to cause one.
FSD is not configured as an assistant to the driver. It requires the driver to assist FSD at all times.
It's possible in fringe cases for FSD to respond to something a person doesn't see, but the other way around is also possible. For example what does FSD do if a police officer is waving cars down along the road because there's an accident around the corner? Or if you see a truck that is going to loose it's load soon, or a flat tyre that will cause someone to crash etc etc. Driver complacency is a real issue, as is over-confidence, both in their own driving skills as well as FSD.
 

jhogan2424

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I think this anger the OP has toward the maybe 100 at most FSD beta testers on the road with children in the car could have a much more effective impact if it was redirected toward the 100 MILLION morons with an iPhone in their face with children in the car. I don’t think the FSD beta poses even a small fraction of the risk as having a phone present in a vehicle. I am one of the last people that advocate new laws for much of anything and I stand against government over reach in most cases but these phones have become the new beer for drivers and I believe there should be a near total ban on phones being used by drivers with very few exceptions and the consequences of getting caught should be equal to a DWI.
 

CyberMoose

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FSD is not configured as an assistant to the driver. It requires the driver to assist FSD at all times.
It's possible in fringe cases for FSD to respond to something a person doesn't see, but the other way around is also possible. For example what does FSD do if a police officer is waving cars down along the road because there's an accident around the corner? Or if you see a truck that is going to loose it's load soon, or a flat tyre that will cause someone to crash etc etc. Driver complacency is a real issue, as is over-confidence, both in their own driving skills as well as FSD.
We still aren't disagreeing. People are supposed to monitor the system and obviously some don't. If I were to see a FSD beta video and that person had a child in the car, I don't see anything wrong with that. If I see a FSD beta video and that person is doing some stupid 'I don't have to care about the road' video with a child in the car, I'd hope that person is charged with child endangerment.

If I had FSD right now, I'd feel safer. I would still monitor the road like I am supposed to but if take my eyes off the road for a second, i'm going to be a lot more comfortable with FSD enabled than disabled.

With how much Tesla cares about safety, which no one can really make much of an argument against that, I'm going to put my trust trust in Tesla. FSD is proven to be safe, from over 3.3 billion miles that the cars have driven with a far lower rate of accident than what human drivers manage.

When I get my Cybertruck, for sure I will be using that FSD package a lot. When Tesla reaches level 3, i'll probably read a book in the car or catch up on some work. When Tesla reaches 4/5...i'll probably take a nap.
 

JBee

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We still aren't disagreeing.
Maybe.
I have a problem with the idea of having FSD on is safer than not having it on, especially so if Tesla themselves say we should be paranoid about using it. If it wasn't beta then it would be different. The difference is that FSD beta is adding a potential complication and you won't be warmed in advance when. It is adding another set of variables for the driver to respond too that they wouldn't normally have to consider.
 

ajdelange

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These are the reasons this version has not been released to the general public but only to the designated group of beta testers.

I suppose the real question is as to whether a test pilot should bring his kids to work.

Having said that note the TACC, the autpilot version available to the hoi polloi, the automatic windshield wiper activation, self park, summon... are all plainly labeled as beta. Perhaps it would be better to label this version of autopilot as alpha+.
 

ajdelange

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This notion of risk for beta tester's (and their passengers) leads me to ask "Are the beta testers being compensate and/or indemnified in any way?" The only way to know whether the car would have hit the monorail stanchion or not would have been to keep hands off he wheel and see. If he had done that and the car had struck it would Tesla cover medical for the driver and his passenger? Would Tesla pick up the tab for repairing the guy's car? Or do these testers (and I think there are a couple thousand, not a couple hundred) assume all the risk with the only compensation being the glory?
 
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