FSD safety and FUD

roadrunner32

Well-known member
First Name
Charles
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Threads
20
Messages
78
Reaction score
88
Location
houston
Vehicles
model Y 2021
Occupation
retired electrical engineer
Country flag
It took me a while to link these two events. My brother's son was killed by a drunk driver in a head on collision on a freeway very late at night. The drunk driver was going the wrong direction on that freeway. It brings me nearly to tears thinking about even after two years. A few months prior to that I had inquired on a Tesla forum if anyone was using to advantage their FSD subscription. I got a response from a woman who said it drove her home after a night of partying and drinking with her friends at the bars. I did frown on her trusting FSD in it's early infancy for that purpose.

Teslas are the safest cars on the road yet they are criticized and ridiculed by falsehoods and blatant lies. So here we are at this juncture where FSD is working great and is going to make the roads and highways even safer and it seems those falsehoods and lies are increasing. increasing just like it did when Ford and GM announced they will cut back EV production. They are losing billions. I always go back to the video that Jack Rickard made where he illustrated the millions of dollars that "big oil" would save for every day they could slow down Tesla. But now its not only "big oil" but it is also the big legacy automakers.
Sponsored

 

HaulingAss

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
5,293
Reaction score
11,065
Location
Washington State
Vehicles
2010 F-150, 2018 Model 3 P, FS DM Cybertruck
Country flag
It took me a while to link these two events. My brother's son was killed by a drunk driver in a head on collision on a freeway very late at night. The drunk driver was going the wrong direction on that freeway. It brings me nearly to tears thinking about even after two years. A few months prior to that I had inquired on a Tesla forum if anyone was using to advantage their FSD subscription. I got a response from a woman who said it drove her home after a night of partying and drinking with her friends at the bars. I did frown on her trusting FSD in it's early infancy for that purpose.

Teslas are the safest cars on the road yet they are criticized and ridiculed by falsehoods and blatant lies. So here we are at this juncture where FSD is working great and is going to make the roads and highways even safer and it seems those falsehoods and lies are increasing. increasing just like it did when Ford and GM announced they will cut back EV production. They are losing billions. I always go back to the video that Jack Rickard made where he illustrated the millions of dollars that "big oil" would save for every day they could slow down Tesla. But now its not only "big oil" but it is also the big legacy automakers.
Absolutely! RIP Jack! I miss the gruff ol' fart who understood how the world worked.
 

Beyond

Well-known member
First Name
Ed
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
203
Reaction score
422
Location
Rum River Watershed, MN
Vehicles
Austin Model Y LR, Subie Fozzie & Cybertruck day1
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
I've been using FSD v12.3.3 and now v12.3.4 and it's stunning. I didn't think they could reach this level of functionality so quickly after moving to an AI visual learning model. It's already better than many of the humans driving around here. Lowering the subscription price to $99 is going to increase adoption and IMO will save lives. Good job FSD team.
 

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
72
Messages
6,533
Reaction score
21,264
Location
Austin, TX
Website
www.timeanddate.com
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2024 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag
Regardless of FUD, we generally expect people to make mistakes but machines to be perfect. I would throw out a calculator that occasionally gave me wrong answers!

So even if FSD reduces the accident rate by 90%, the people involved in the 10% will want to sue for millions because it's the machine's "fault". For self-driving cars to work on a wide scale, there will need to be laws that quantify (and even limit) the liability.
 


electricAK

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
254
Reaction score
592
Location
Haines, Alaska
Vehicles
Cybertruck dual-motor
Country flag
Regardless of FUD, we generally expect people to make mistakes but machines to be perfect. I would throw out a calculator that occasionally gave me wrong answers!
Except FSD doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to be better than a human. It's already there for very large swaths of road system. Tesla could geofence off the areas where disengagements and corner cases are happening, and FSD magically just became good enough. They could literally do this whenever they want to.

So even if FSD reduces the accident rate by 90%, the people involved in the 10% will want to sue for millions because it's the machine's "fault". For self-driving cars to work on a wide scale, there will need to be laws that quantify (and even limit) the liability.
From what I can tell, this is false. If FSD were to become unsupervised (like it is already for Waymo), liability would fall on Tesla by default. No new laws need to be made. Luckily Tesla is *already* an insurance company. They will easily handle the liability when FSD accident rates drop to less than the current accident rates that they are already covering. Again, all Tesla has to do is geofence off the corner cases and we are pretty much there.

(I'm speaking about the US specifically. Not sure about other countries.)
 
Last edited:

HaulingAss

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
5,293
Reaction score
11,065
Location
Washington State
Vehicles
2010 F-150, 2018 Model 3 P, FS DM Cybertruck
Country flag
Except FSD doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to be better than a human. It's already there for very large swaths of road system. Tesla could geofence off the areas where disengagements and corner cases are happening, and FSD magically just became good enough. They could literally do this whenever they want to.



From what I can tell, this is false. If FSD were to become unsupervised (like it is already for Waymo), liability would fall on Tesla by default. No new laws need to be made. Luckily Tesla is *already* an insurance company. They will easily handle the liability when FSD accident rates drop to less than the current accident rates that they are already covering. Again, all Tesla has to do is geofence off the corner cases and we are pretty much there.

(I'm speaking about the US specifically. Not sure about other countries.)
Exactly! Lowering the accident rate by 90% would save billions of dollars, and over 30,000 lives every year, just in the US. Insurance companies would love that.
 

madquadbiker

Well-known member
First Name
Tony
Joined
May 23, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
467
Reaction score
574
Location
Weston Super Mare, UK
Vehicles
Nissan Navara NP300, Honda e, Honda TRX700XX
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
At $99/mo, FSD costs about half what my insurance was.

If they were able to reduce accidents down 90%, that's a heck of a profit margin.

-Crissa
But would they pass on these savings by reducing premiums, here in ripoff Britain insurance premiums have shot up because of so called increased labour and parts prices and increased loading for EV,s for replacement batteries.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
133
Messages
17,197
Reaction score
28,560
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
But would they pass on these savings by reducing premiums, here in ripoff Britain insurance premiums have shot up because of so called increased labour and parts prices and increased loading for EV,s for replacement batteries.
Well, a 90% reduction is still a 90% reduction.

UK insurance seems to be all about how to cheat city dwellers out of money.

-Crissa
 


ED_SFO

Well-known member
First Name
Ed
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Threads
7
Messages
464
Reaction score
852
Location
Sfo
Vehicles
M3
Country flag
After using FSD free trial in SF...it's no where near as smooth and as safe as the Waymo here in the city. I would say it's about 65% there as compared to Waymo...I think Elon needs to ride in a Waymo and see how smooth an autonomous ride can be, they're the gold standard as of now. Cruise was not bad and I would say cruise is about 70%. Smoothness and less jerking around is the key to confidence for me. Robotaxi probably 2 more years to get to the level of confidence Waymo provides today. IMO
 

Woodrick

Well-known member
First Name
Ed
Joined
Dec 30, 2023
Threads
5
Messages
2,821
Reaction score
3,281
Location
Gainesville Ga
Vehicles
Model 3, Model Y, Cybertruck AWD
Occupation
Consultant
Country flag
But would they pass on these savings by reducing premiums, here in ripoff Britain insurance premiums have shot up because of so called increased labour and parts prices and increased loading for EV,s for replacement batteries.
There is some legal requirements that they have to do.

But if nothing else, it will slow down them increasing them in the future.
 

Woodrick

Well-known member
First Name
Ed
Joined
Dec 30, 2023
Threads
5
Messages
2,821
Reaction score
3,281
Location
Gainesville Ga
Vehicles
Model 3, Model Y, Cybertruck AWD
Occupation
Consultant
Country flag
After using FSD free trial in SF...it's no where near as smooth and as safe as the Waymo here in the city. I would say it's about 65% there as compared to Waymo...I think Elon needs to ride in a Waymo and see how smooth an autonomous ride can be, they're the gold standard as of now. Cruise was not bad and I would say cruise is about 70%. Smoothness and less jerking around is the key to confidence for me. Robotaxi probably 2 more years to get to the level of confidence Waymo provides today. IMO
Waymo works in highly restricted areas. It requires humans to go out and drive the route daily. When Waymo or Cruise goes into a new area, it takes months to train the system that runs the cars.

They are much more like slot cars than anything.

They are definitely a horse of a different color. BTW, ever seen one of them driving 70 mph?
 

BLU-UFO

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2024
Threads
0
Messages
17
Reaction score
14
Location
SOCAL
Vehicles
Model S Plaid and McLaren 765LT Spider
Country flag
I've been using FSD v12.3.3 and now v12.3.4 and it's stunning. I didn't think they could reach this level of functionality so quickly after moving to an AI visual learning model. It's already better than many of the humans driving around here. Lowering the subscription price to $99 is going to increase adoption and IMO will save lives. Good job FSD team.
I have subscribed to this $99/month offer on 4/12/2024 for my MS. I have not received any push notification for an OTA software update for the latest FSD software. It appears that I am running FSD v11.4.9. What am I missing??
Sponsored

 
 




Top