FSD with Hand Signals

[FutureBoy]

So I was out driving yesterday and came across a section of the road where there were people directing traffic. It got me wondering if FSD was going to be smart enough to be able to follow the directions given by a traffic director person. You know the cop or construction person who is giving hand signals to lined up cars as to what they should do.

Typical motions that the FSD system would need to recognize are:

1. Attention Pointing: When the director is specifically getting your attention by pointing directly at your windshield with urgency. This point will then be followed by some other direction.
2. Stop: The hand in the air with palm facing you.
3. Pointed Path: Using a pointing finger to point at the path you need to take.
4. Slow: The bouncy hand telling you to slow down already.
5. Ignore: The direction of ignoring you because you have to wait patiently while others are being directed instead of you.
6. Come On Wave: The generic repeated wave telling your line of cars to proceed forward on the current path.
7. Pull Over: The occasional time out where you have been bad and are being sidelined for a bit.

There are probably others. And I'm guessing that around the world there are varieties of how these signals are acted out. Plus at times there are more than 1 person directing so choices would need to be made as to what direction to follow.

Anyway, I wonder if anyone will show us what FSD will currently do when it comes to a construction zone with people directing traffic. Or even a construction zone that is shut down for the night but with no obvious lanes, signals, etc.

This is one situation that I would definitely not trust FSD currently or even in the near future.

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[Eye of Elon]

I predict, even 20 years, from now there will be FSD traffic jams where ai just can't compute edge cases and robo vehicles will just stop, until some human guides them out of their predicament.

 

[Crissa]

Pretty sure AI can read hand gestures.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ai+reading+sign+language

Pretty interesting, it's been done a bunch of ways.

-Crissa

 

[Bigvbear]

not only hand signals (but you bring up a good point there, not sure if Tesla has considered that one) but also construction sites with flaggers.

 

[IKNOOOW]

in the early stages the routing could just avoid the area with construction. or if there is vehicle to infrastructure connection they would know if lights are out and avoid that area.

 

[Bigvbear]

in the early stages the routing could just avoid the area with construction. or if there is vehicle to infrastructure connection they would know if lights are out and avoid that area.

assuming they can be avoided.

I am also curious about 4 way flashing red. At least in our area if a traffic light malfunctions it will go into 4 way flashing red which means 4 way stop.

 

[Crissa]

It treats a flashing red as a stop sign, which it handles... most of the time. Which puts it about as good as other drivers, I guess.

-Crissa

 

[FutureBoy]

It treats a flashing red as a stop sign, which it handles... most of the time. Which puts it about as good as other drivers, I guess.

-Crissa

Around here a lot of people treat flashing red lights similar to how they treat 4-way stops. They get to the intersection, wait for ALL other vehicles from all directions to go first, wave any others through the intersection, wait for at least 5 other vehicles to come to the intersection and be waved through, then wait for all those vehicles to get completely out of sight, then finally look to see if they can proceed safely. If there is no one around, they might then proceed throttle intersection. But by then someone in the long line of vehicles behind them will probably have laid on the horn at them. The horn will distract them and make the process start all over.

From the FSD videos I’ve seen, Tesla is way ahead of those drivers.

 

[Crissa]

Man, the people who treat stop signs as 'one car in the intersection at once' drive me up the wall. Especially when you find them at four-ways with multiple lanes.

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Man, the people who treat stop signs as 'one car in the intersection at once' drive me up the wall. Especially when you find them at four-ways with multiple lanes.

-Crissa

When I learned to drive (albeit a long time ago) there were several rules to be applied at a 4-way stop:

1. If you get there and are the only one there you can proceed after stopping.
2. If you arrive with someone else and are opposite and going straight then you can both proceed.
3. All other scenarios, the first person goes and the counterclockwise order from them.

So if my memory is correct and things haven’t changed since then, then there is only one scenario where there can be multiple vehicles in the intersection at once.

Please correct me...

 

[FutureBoy]

When I learned to drive (albeit a long time ago) there were several rules to be applied at a 4-way stop:

1. If you get there and are the only one there you can proceed after stopping.
2. If you arrive with someone else and are opposite and going straight then you can both proceed.
3. All other scenarios, the first person goes and the counterclockwise order from them.

So if my memory is correct and things haven’t changed since then, then there is only one scenario where there can be multiple vehicles in the intersection at once.

Please correct me...

Unfortunately those lessons (I also learned them) are not being learned by everyone apparently. In this area, we have a lot of people that have moved here from many other places both in the US and international. Because of these migrations, it is entirely unpredictable how any single vehicle will behave. As a result, those who tend to drive more cautiously, or more fearfully, seem to over emphasize those tendencies. Which of course ends up resulting in the aggressive/bold drivers also over emphasizing their own tendencies.

Given all that, 4-way stops are a total nightmare. And there are a number of other nightmare scenarios. I try not to think about them if I’m not driving as I don’t want to give myself high blood pressure.

But it makes for an interesting thought. Once FSD is out in all areas, will the driving characteristics of various geographies start to go away? Will we eventually get to a single normal character of driving?

 

[Crissa]

Please correct me...

#1 Car(s) traveling parallel opposite direction
#2 Car(s) traveling parallel the same direction
#3, 4 Right turn from right lane parallel with #1 and/or #2
With no traffic approaching from your left, or in situations #3:
#5 Right turn while car opposite is also making a right turn
#6 Right turn while car to your right is making a left turn.
With no traffic opposite, except right turning traffic:
#7, 8, 9, 10 Left turn from while car(s) parallel are proceeding in the direction of their lane
#8 Motorcycles, bicycles, in pairs, can act as a single vehicle in above situations (varied by state, in California they can also share a wide single lane with another non-two-wheel vehicle)

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

#1 Car(s) traveling parallel opposite direction
#2 Car(s) traveling parallel the same direction
#3, 4 Right turn from right lane parallel with #1 and/or #2
With no traffic approaching from your left, or in situations #3:
#5 Right turn while car opposite is also making a right turn
#6 Right turn while car to your right is making a left turn.
With no traffic opposite, except right turning traffic:
#7, 8, 9, 10 Left turn from while car(s) parallel are proceeding in the direction of their lane
#8 Motorcycles, bicycles, in pairs, can act as a single vehicle in above situations (varied by state, in California they can also share a wide single lane with another non-two-wheel vehicle)

-Crissa

I agree with @FutureBoy that the problem is the people and not the rules, and what you are saying is grounds to do pretty much what you want. I am guilty of letting aggressive drivers mess with the intersections; let them kill themselves or someone else. As a former motorcycle rider, I am surprised that you, as a current motorcycle rider, would trust multiple vehicles in an intersection but I grant you the correction, thank you.

 

[Crissa]

As a former motorcycle rider, I am surprised that you, as a current motorcycle rider, would trust multiple vehicles in an intersection but I grant you the correction, thank you.

Well, a car is a large object that will take an impact much better than me on a bike! So I'll happily share with it shielding me if I can.

I don't usually do this on my motorcycle, though, only in multiple-lane stops.

-Crissa

 

[T3slaDad]

assuming they can be avoided.

I am also curious about 4 way flashing red. At least in our area if a traffic light malfunctions it will go into 4 way flashing red which means 4 way stop.

I believe in one of the FSD beta videos, they ran into that situation. If you haven't been, I highly encourage you to regularly watch and subscribe to those youtubers who are regularly posting their FSD beta footage as they often go to the same places repeatedly, test out these edge cases, etc. It's a real eye opener to how advanced and fast FSD truly is learning, even with just a small group.

Anyway, I believe in that early FSD beta video with the 4 way stop, it stopped but did not know how to continue and the driver reported it to Telsa for review. I believe it was one of Dirty Tesla's videos?

Again, if you're interested in how FSD handles things, please watch and subscribe to those channels. They show the most amazing of edge case scenarios!

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