How many powerwalls will fit in vault?

Odiggity

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
Location
USA
Vehicles
T
Country flag
Let’s hypothetically think about max range with powerwalls in the vault. As if we were a future Mark Watney on Mars:cool:

Assuming powerwall is (1151 mm × 752 mm × 146 mm) and vault is
Height: (1,905 mm)
Width: (2,027 mm)
Length: (5,885 mm)

how many could fit rack and stack?

We might further assume each weighs 250lbs and holds 12kwh, what additional range might it be able to provide?

if 10 could fit, would that double the range? At $7k per power wall would it be a better value to just tow another cybertruck for its battery capacity?
Advertisement

 

Frankenblob

Well-known member
First Name
Frank, USA is the BEST. Communism SUX
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
253
Reaction score
216
Location
Home
Vehicles
M38A-1, Trans-am
Country flag
Let’s hypothetically think about max range with powerwalls in the vault. As if we were a future Mark Watney on Mars:cool:

Assuming powerwall is (1151 mm × 752 mm × 146 mm) and vault is
Height: (1,905 mm)
Width: (2,027 mm)
Length: (5,885 mm)

how many could fit rack and stack?

We might further assume each weighs 250lbs and holds 12kwh, what additional range might it be able to provide?

if 10 could fit, would that double the range? At $7k per power wall would it be a better value to just tow another cybertruck for its battery capacity?
That is interesting.
I would like to add, if one has 450Kw of battery storage and goes to a supercharger that can output 400Kw of power should it not take a second or less to charge that battery?

Batteries are becoming faster to charge and I do foresee batteries taking seconds and less to charge - provided a supercharger can output ones battery size, maybe even faster once new materials are found and the exact harmonics/vibration of those materials can be ascertained.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
7,891
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
I would like to add, if one has 450Kw of battery storage and goes to a supercharger that can output 400Kw of power should it not take a second or less to charge that battery?
No, because each battery has a limit to how much charge they can absorb over time. It's a rate, usually called 'C'. My motorcycle can accept at max a 1C charge (full in an hour) and remain within spec. A Model 3 battery does about 3C at max (full in twenty minutes), but is rumored capable of the 4C charging like the Taycan (full in 15 minutes).

At those high levels of charging there are other limits, too: The heat produced by amperage has to go somewhere so you don't melt the cable, the batteries, etc. And the high voltage has to be shielded in some way so it doesn't jump out of your conductors.

Powerwalls are not very dense storage batteries, and each contain their own inverter and charger so are even more bulky than you'd really need for vehicle storage.

-Crissa
 

Frankenblob

Well-known member
First Name
Frank, USA is the BEST. Communism SUX
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
253
Reaction score
216
Location
Home
Vehicles
M38A-1, Trans-am
Country flag
No, because each battery has a limit to how much charge they can absorb over time. It's a rate, usually called 'C'. My motorcycle can accept at max a 1C charge (full in an hour) and remain within spec. A Model 3 battery does about 3C at max (full in twenty minutes), but is rumored capable of the 4C charging like the Taycan (full in 15 minutes).

At those high levels of charging there are other limits, too: The heat produced by amperage has to go somewhere so you don't melt the cable, the batteries, etc. And the high voltage has to be shielded in some way so it doesn't jump out of your conductors.

Powerwalls are not very dense storage batteries, and each contain their own inverter and charger so are even more bulky than you'd really need for vehicle storage.

-Crissa
"...No, because each battery has a limit to how much charge they can absorb over time. It's a rate, usually called 'C'...."

Correct, but that is only for now, many "can't be dones" have been done and we are conquering more and more.

"Glow in the dark" ( a second or two of light imprinted on them) type materials are currently being researched to see what outcomes could be had with batteries/other energy storage mechanisms.

We are, imo, only looking at the surface and haven't even scratched it yet as to what can and will be done.

I will keep envisioning and watch where we go!

p.s. Flying cars were not thought of not even as a possibilityin the 1920's, now we are a few years away from them and the technology is speeding up.
 

Gvardaman

Well-known member
First Name
Guy
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
106
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3, BMW 330ci, VW Corrado (non-op)
Country flag
p.s. Flying cars were not thought of not even as a possibilityin the 1920's, now we are a few years away from them and the technology is speeding up.
I am so happy to hear this! There have been several Popular Science covers devoted to the flying cars that might be in our driveways “very soon”, I had about given up hope.
Sort of like computers getting speech recognition. It was “2-5 years away” for about 20 years, then, finally we have it!
If your question was about the hypothetical future, then yes, absolutely. There will be battery technology that will have materials that can take the heat and allow for lightning-fast charging, as well as far greater density.
Before that happens, there may be other disruptive technologies that could supercede or supplant it.
Consider a vehicle getting a charge inductively, at every stoplight or stop sign, or perhaps every parking lot? Heck, maybe even while driving? Or a microreactor that would generate the power on board?
As solar gets more efficient, the rooftop glass might produce enough for far greater range on a sunny day...
Quantum nano-particles inside the battery cells might also be able to repair batteries as they charge to allow for “flash-charging” by breaking the dendrites back down to their base molecular structures, putting them back to work while extending battery life.
Capturing the heat at the batteries might be another source of energy if coupled to a peltier cooler that would use it to generate electricity.
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,957
Reaction score
3,145
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
We might further assume each weighs 250lbs and holds 12kwh, what additional range might it be able to provide?

if 10 could fit, would that double the range? At $7k per power wall would it be a better value to just tow another cybertruck for its battery capacity?
Easy enough to figure. Putting the impracticalities aside 10 Powerwalls adds 130 kWh of storage. Consumption for the CT is going to be 0.4 - 0.5 kWh per mile. Thus 130 kWh would add about 260 - 325 miles.
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,957
Reaction score
3,145
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
I would like to add, if one has 450Kw of battery storage and goes to a supercharger that can output 400Kw of power should it not take a second or less to charge that battery?
You are confusing (many do) energy (kWh) and energy transfer rate (power, kW). If you have a 450 kWh battery array and a 400 kW charger it would take 450 kWh/400 kW = 1.125 hours to charge it.
 
Last edited:

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
7,891
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
You are confusing (many do) energy (kWh) and energy transfer rate (power, kW). If you have a 400 kWh battery array and a 450 kW charger it would take 450 kWh/400 kW = 1.125 hours to charge it.
No.

400kWh is 400kW for one hour.

So 450kW does 450kWh in an hour.

(400/450)*60=~54 minutes.

-Crissa

(This is without worrying about tapering, voltage, heat management...)
 

Frankenblob

Well-known member
First Name
Frank, USA is the BEST. Communism SUX
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
253
Reaction score
216
Location
Home
Vehicles
M38A-1, Trans-am
Country flag
Let’s hypothetically think about max range with powerwalls in the vault. As if we were a future Mark Watney on Mars:cool:

Assuming powerwall is (1151 mm × 752 mm × 146 mm) and vault is
Height: (1,905 mm)
Width: (2,027 mm)
Length: (5,885 mm)

how many could fit rack and stack?

We might further assume each weighs 250lbs and holds 12kwh, what additional range might it be able to provide?

if 10 could fit, would that double the range? At $7k per power wall would it be a better value to just tow another cybertruck for its battery capacity?
With Mars' reduced gravity, reduced friction and other variable components one may need a Theoretical Physicist to chime in.

Heck now I'm lost.
 
Last edited:

Gvardaman

Well-known member
First Name
Guy
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
106
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3, BMW 330ci, VW Corrado (non-op)
Country flag
Also on Mars, it will need better seals, an oxygen tank, air scrubber, maybe a larger heater... carpeting?
 

mrschwen

Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
?
Country flag
I am so happy to hear this! There have been several Popular Science covers devoted to the flying cars that might be in our driveways “very soon”, I had about given up hope.
Sort of like computers getting speech recognition. It was “2-5 years away” for about 20 years, then, finally we have it!
If your question was about the hypothetical future, then yes, absolutely. There will be battery technology that will have materials that can take the heat and allow for lightning-fast charging, as well as far greater density.
Before that happens, there may be other disruptive technologies that could supercede or supplant it.
Consider a vehicle getting a charge inductively, at every stoplight or stop sign, or perhaps every parking lot? Heck, maybe even while driving? Or a microreactor that would generate the power on board?
As solar gets more efficient, the rooftop glass might produce enough for far greater range on a sunny day...
Quantum nano-particles inside the battery cells might also be able to repair batteries as they charge to allow for “flash-charging” by breaking the dendrites back down to their base molecular structures, putting them back to work while extending battery life.
Capturing the heat at the batteries might be another source of energy if coupled to a peltier cooler that would use it to generate electricity.
To be fair speech recognition for computers has been available for home users since the mid 90s. It just isn't very practical.

That's also the main problem with flying cars - they have been built before. It just isn't very practical right now (and will likely never be a very practical solution).
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,957
Reaction score
3,145
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
To be fair speech recognition for computers has been available for home users since the mid 90s. It just isn't very practical.
Actually, I find the speech recognition in the X pretty amazing.
 

jonny

Active member
First Name
jon
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
22
Location
lvnv
Vehicles
car
Country flag
"...No, because each battery has a limit to how much charge they can absorb over time. It's a rate, usually called 'C'...."

Correct, but that is only for now, many "can't be dones" have been done and we are conquering more and more.

"Glow in the dark" ( a second or two of light imprinted on them) type materials are currently being researched to see what outcomes could be had with batteries/other energy storage mechanisms.

We are, imo, only looking at the surface and haven't even scratched it yet as to what can and will be done.

I will keep envisioning and watch where we go!

p.s. Flying cars were not thought of not even as a possibilityin the 1920's, now we are a few years away from them and the technology is speeding up.
But crissa is right, you are depending a wish and a prayer. Maybe a super cap might get it done, But batteries nope. Just like flying cars really will never take off (no pun) because cars are heavy and durable vs planes that are light and fragile. Can a car fly sure, Can a plane drive on the street maybe, but neither will be very good at it. And this is what they don't talk about. it's the same as batteries. You are right that Batteries have come a long way in the last decade. But what you want might be here in say the next 200 or 300 years. But I wouldn't count on it. As you said, once new materials are found. is correct. the stuff we have to work with now is nearing its limit.
 

mrschwen

Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
?
Country flag
Actually, I find the speech recognition in the X pretty amazing.
I am sure it is. When speech recognition first came out people insisted on using it to replace a computer keyboard - and to dictate papers.
Just like the person who insists on dictating text messages in the office. It gets annoying.
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top