MEDICALJMP

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Jim Glickenhaus challenges Elon Musk to a Cybertruck showdown in the Baja 1000

He wants to prove hydrogen fuel cells aren't as dumb as Musk claims

Dec 31st 2020
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/31/cybertruck-jim-glickenhaus-elon-musk-race-challenge/

Jim Glickenhaus has challenged Elon Musk to race in the 2023 edition of the Baja 1000. Posted on social media, the duel invitation aims to prove the merits of hydrogen-electric technology.

"You have said that hydrogen technology is 'mind-bogglingly stupid.' You've also mentioned that the Baja 1000 would be a great test for your Cybertruck. We say bring it," wrote Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus on Instagram.

Tesla boss Musk made the comments referenced by Glickenhaus in 2019. He called fuel cells "fool cells," added that the technology is "a load of rubbish," and concluded that "success is simply not possible." Musk became one of the richest people in the world by selling battery electric cars, so his stance on hydrogen is not entirely surprising.


Glickenhaus evidently stands on the pro-hydrogen side of the industry, among manufacturers like Toyota, BMW, Hyundai, and Ineos. Although his company primarily builds race cars powered by gasoline, he predicted that a hydrogen-electric variant of the Boot (pictured below) could finish the 1,000-mile Baja without stopping to refuel, a feat that would give the team a big time advantage over its rivals. In comparison, the top-of-the-line Cybertruck will allegedly offer a 500-plus-mile range, so it would need to stop and charge at least once to finish the race.

"We have a nice relationship with [sanctioning body] SCORE International, and we would be happy to help you navigate entry and find a good place to set up charging stations for your Cybertruck," SCG added. Glickenhaus won first in its class twice, in 2020 and in 2019, and it beat several big-name rivals, such as Ford's born-again Bronco.

Musk hasn't responded. If he accepts the challenge, the Baja 1000 would become the first major race Tesla participates in. It sounds like the hydrogen-powered Boot will compete in 2023 regardless of Tesla's answer.

scg_baja_boot_2019_baja_1000_001.jpg
 

Crissa

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There's nothing other than weight really stopping an electric truck from filling the back with batteries. More batteries means slower, more cautious lest they break something... But the charging speed is only a little bit of the race.

-Crissa
 

Diehard

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I hope he takes the challenge. I don’t care if CT wins or even finishes the race. I just want my truck after one or two attempts. I have no doubt, a few of the lessons learned will make it to production CT.
 

FutureBoy

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There's nothing other than weight really stopping an electric truck from filling the back with batteries. More batteries means slower, more cautious lest they break something... But the charging speed is only a little bit of the race.

-Crissa
Based on battery day, Limiting Factor, and some other sources, I’m hopeful that charging a CT will be surprisingly quick. With a 500+ mile battery I’d expect that there would only need to be 2 battery charge stops. And if the charge is fast then it wouldn’t be so much of an obstacle on the Baja 1000.

With a strong EV there would be far less that could break or go wrong compared with an ICE vehicle. So as long as the vehicle doesn’t break and has the specs to deal with pot holes, mud, rocks, etc, it could compete well.

So after that the remaining deal would be the people involved. Driver and navigator, support crew, support planner, etc. Plus the other hardware needed like gps, radios, mapping, etc.
 

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I hope he takes the challenge. I don’t care if CT wins or even finishes the race. I just want my truck after one or two attempts. I have no doubt, a few of the lessons learned will make it to production CT.
Elon has said the CT needs to kick butt at Baja. But did he ever commit Tesla to entering a team of their own? If they enter in 2021 and 2022 then they would have 2 full years head start to get their team honed and show the world what an EV entry can really do.

By the time others enter the race, Tesla will be the team to beat. Or some private team running with a CT perhaps.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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Based on battery day, Limiting Factor, and some other sources, I’m hopeful that charging a CT will be surprisingly quick. With a 500+ mile battery I’d expect that there would only need to be 2 battery charge stops. And if the charge is fast then it wouldn’t be so much of an obstacle on the Baja 1000.

With a strong EV there would be far less that could break or go wrong compared with an ICE vehicle. So as long as the vehicle doesn’t break and has the specs to deal with pot holes, mud, rocks, etc, it could compete well.

So after that the remaining deal would be the people involved. Driver and navigator, support crew, support planner, etc. Plus the other hardware needed like gps, radios, mapping, etc.
I know next to nothing about the Baja 1000 but I am certain that it is a grueling race that would require pushing the vehicle to its limits. It will not get anything remotely close to 500 miles on the battery pack. They would probably require some kind of hot-swappable battery every 100 miles at best. Just a guess as I have performed no calculations, but I have driven 4x4s in tough conditions, albeit in totally casual ways, and they dramatically reduce fuel economy. That said, I am sure that they could address all issues and I would love to see the CT enter the race.
 

Crissa

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A swappable battery took about fifteen minutes in a Model S.

So just dumping charge into a nearly-empty battery turned out to be 'faster'.

We'll see what they come up with.

-Crissa
 

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A swappable battery took about fifteen minutes in a Model S.

So just dumping charge into a nearly-empty battery turned out to be 'faster'.

We'll see what they come up with.

-Crissa
It’s like the Indy 500. When it is done by professional race crews you can change all 4 tires, fill the tank, and do who knows what else in 60 seconds. I do not think that we can compare the test case with the Model S to a well-planned race, not one anyone would expect to win at least, and if the fuel cell gauntlet has been thrown down wining has to be on the plate, at least winning against the fuel cell vehicles. Like the Pikes Peak Challenge, I bet there would be more than one CT team.
 

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For the Baja 1000 they could use an exotic battery pack, lithium-air, lithium-sulfide, just to name a couple. They don't have to stick with stock batteries, or motors. It's going to be an interesting year!
 

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Fuel cells for a long grueling race makes more sense than hauling batteries. That said, I would love to see the doorstop compete in ANY kind of race. The whole issue with hydrogen is the infrastructure. Electricity is already available everywhere. Building hydrogen stations in every little town on the entire planet is not very cost effective. Nor is the production of the product itself as well. And dont get me started on the safety issues..

Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales (insideevs.com)
 

Newton

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i think they would just have a "refueling" truck(maybe a CT with batteries in the back) at like 2 or 3 stops along the way. stop for 30-45 minutes to get to over 80% seems the easiest option
 

Jhodgesatmb

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i think they would just have a "refueling" truck(maybe a CT with batteries in the back) at like 2 or 3 stops along the way. stop for 30-45 minutes to get to over 80% seems the easiest option
If they can run the hydrogen car nonstop and beat the Ford by 5 hours I think the CT has to be able to go the distance. That said, I was sorely mistaken thinking that this challenge was from a fuel cell truck. If not I wouldn’t consider the challenge seriously. Just enter the rally for the sake of seeing what the CT can do.
 

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