Lordstown at San Filipe 250

[Friday]

I'm not gonna get down on them for trying something nobody tried yet. It's all part of test and measurement. They just happen to do their test and measurement out in front of everyone, supporters and critics.

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[Sirfun]

I should probably let this thread slowly fade away into the past, but I just can't let things go. That video from Lordstown is VERY misleading. They are trying to imply they took their Lordstown truck to Baja, and tested it. I have been to the Baja 1000 and things aren't always what they seem. I'm including photos of Ivan Stewart driving into the pits in the the late 80's. The guy standing there with beer in hand is me. That Toyota has absolutely nothing to do with a Toyota truck. If you look closely of it driving down the road, the roll cage is in the middle of the windshield area, with offroad lights in front of where a driver normally sits. That's because, this is a center-single seat race vehicle with the Le mans racing series engine mounted midway directly behind the driver. This is basically an offroad racing buggy with a fake truck body mounted on it.

 

[Sirfun]

Look at this video at :45 that's NOT a Lordstown truck. I doubt it even has hub motors.

 

[Ehninger1212]

Look at this video at :45 that's NOT a Lordstown truck. I doubt it even has hub motors.

What are you talking about? They pretty explicitly had Brenthel build a tube chassis then they added the hub motors and battery/drivetrain tech on their own.. they never said it was a 100% lordstown endurance.

They also pretty explicitly stated the goal was not to win, it was to gather test data to improve the truck. They would have liked to finish.. but they still met the goal.. gather test data.

Electrek did a pretty good write up.. I agree with the Author.
Baja Lordstown

Lordstown also posted this video of the truck getting built...
HERE

 

[Sirfun]

What are you talking about? They pretty explicitly had Brenthel build a tube chassis then they added the hub motors and battery/drivetrain tech on their own.. they never said it was a 100% lordstown endurance.

They also pretty explicitly stated the goal was not to win, it was to gather test data to improve the truck. They would have liked to finish.. but they still met the goal.. gather test data.

Electrek did a pretty good write up.. I agree with the Author.
Baja Lordstown

Lordstown also posted this video of the truck getting built...
HERE

What I'm talking about is MARKETING! The same thing I was talking about when I described the "Toyota". The same thing you see when you watch NASCAR and they are racing Fords, Chevys, and Toyotas. These manufacturers are marketing/confusing the truth with the public. BTW I'm glad you pointed out they used Hub motors, that's great. What irks me, is they plastered their name all over that CUSTOM built race vehicle and called it a Lordstown pickup truck. In the video you linked I did this printscreen. This is NOT a pickup truck.

 

[Crissa]

Sure looks like one to me,

-Crissa

 

[Ehninger1212]

What I'm talking about is MARKETING! The same thing I was talking about when I described the "Toyota". The same thing you see when you watch NASCAR and they are racing Fords, Chevys, and Toyotas. These manufacturers are marketing/confusing the truth with the public. BTW I'm glad you pointed out they used Hub motors, that's great. What irks me, is they plastered their name all over that CUSTOM built race vehicle and called it a Lords town pickup truck. In the video you linked I did this print screen. This is NOT a pickup truck.

I would be willing to bet that the majority of people who are interested in Baja racing and NASCAR realize that these are not vehicle's pulled right off the dealer lots.. I mean.. this is pretty much what professional racing is. There are very few events where the vehicles are run bone stock anymore.. period.

Also.. i dont see what is wrong with the way they marketed this at all.. of course they plastered the lordstown name all over it.

 

[OneLapper]

Also.. pretty wild they had 4X energy consumption.. that's something I did not expect!

I race an Alta electric dirt bike, mostly enduro style racing, tracks through woods, up and down steep hills, etc.

On courses that are extremely sandy, like Southwick, the bike will use a ton more energy to power through the super deep ruts, mud, and sand. It certainly has the power, but at a cost.

I can get about 22-26 miles of hard racing, but if I'm just trail riding I can double that to 44 miles or more. It has a 5.8kw battery pack.

Like @Crissa said, her electric Zero motorcycle has about a half gallon of gas for energy, same for the Alta.

The energy density of batteries can't match that of gas or diesel. High HP racing uses a lot of energy.

My race car/Cannonball Run car gets 22mpg at 80 on the highway, and 3mpg on the track!

 

[Sirfun]

I would be willing to bet that the majority of people who are interested in Baja racing and NASCAR realize that these are not vehicle's pulled right off the dealer lots.. I mean.. this is pretty much what professional racing is. There are very few events where the vehicles are run bone stock anymore.. period.

Also.. i dont see what is wrong with the way they marketed this at all.. of course they plastered the lordstown name all over it.

AHHH Jake let's just let this thread go. You are right, nobody expects race vehicles to be bone stock or 100% of that vehicle as you said earlier.
I'll leave with my conversation with the Dodge team manager I was parked next in Baja when we got those photos of Ivan Stewart's "TOYOTA". After Ivan took off and the distant sound of his engine faded away at wide open. I turned and said to the Dodge guy, "that was awesome". His response, "there's nothing on that thing that's from a Toyota Truck, not even a bolt"!!!
So as I said in my first post. Things aren't always what they seem.

 

[FutureBoy]

Lordstown Motors Explains Withdrawal From SCORE San Felipe 250

Energy usage was significantly higher than anticipated.

Lordstown Motors released today an update on the yesterday's withdrawal from the SCORE San Felipe 250 rally, after just 40 miles (64 km) out of the total distance of 240 miles (386 km).

There were no technical issues with the vehicle, based on the Lordstown Endurance pickup truck, but the truck had simply run low on energy.

According to Lordstown Motors, they assumed that the energy usage would be three times higher compared to normal road conditions, while it turned out to be four times higher.

"We knew this was a grueling environment and would push us. We successfully navigated the extreme conditions over the first 40-mile leg of the race with all of our mechanicals meeting or exceeding our expectations. While we anticipated significantly higher energy demand from this environment – the reality of the terrain proved to be even more demanding."

"During the race, when we reached the first charging stop, we analyzed the drive data, and concluded our energy usage was much more intensive than we had modeled. In our pre-race estimates, we assumed a 3X energy usage compared to normal road conditions at 200 ft. elevation. Following stage 1, however, our data showed consumption at 4 times the normal level.

As we recharged for stage 2, we concluded that the next leg – more than 65 miles at net 1750 ft. elevation – could result in our vehicle stopping in the middle of mountainous terrain with no viable or accessible charging options, so we decided not to send the vehicle back out on the course."

There are no details, but we can make some calculations. The regular truck will be equipped with a 109 kWh battery and is expected to get more than 250 miles (402 km) of EPA range. That would be about 270 Wh/km (435 Wh/mile) or so.

At three times higher energy consumption, the range would be then just 83 miles (134 km), which sounds more than enough to complete the 65 miles of the mountain leg. However, at 4-times the energy consumption, the range would be just 63 miles (101 km).


We guess that in such circumstances, maybe it would be better to take an extended or double battery or at least provide more charging opportunities.

Anyway, Lordstown Motors says that they drove 10 miles more on their way home to gather additional data:

"While we were done racing for the day, we continued to demonstrate the vehicle’s capabilities through an additional 10 miles of off-course driving, which only added to the insights and feedback we generated during the race

Aside from racing, this example shows how important a large battery pack is in an electric pickup, which should be a sign for all manufacturers that recently rushed to introduce them on the market.

Regular drivers will not be racing, but if you take a load or tow, in unfavorable weather, maybe not fully charged, maybe after a few years (slight battery degradation), it will be a very similar problem. Will 100+ kWh be enough or just a bare minimum for local driving? Should it be 150-200 kWh standard and more if needed?

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