Model "T"esla of the 21st century?

[lukefrisbee]

As I mull over the Cyber (Which I have repeatedly hated the name), one thing keeps forming in my mind.... This could be the Model "T"esla of this century.

Do you see what I see?
Function vs Form
Long-lived
Simple engineering
The beginning of a new wave of transportation

And those are just off the top of my head. In 20 years people will look at these vehicles with some respect. In 40 years there will be clubs

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[John K]

ELon Musk is playing us. The release truck will all curves, made of fiberglass, low profile tires and 2 foot bed.

 

[Saskateam]

I can see how the CT will change automotive history as much as the model t did for Ford. The CT is cheap and easier to mass produce, takes less space to manufacture and will be seen as a marvel product after release.

 

[ajdelange]

Simple engineering

Ah, yes. Nothing like the simplicity of millions of transistors, hundreds of thousands of lines of code, gigabytes of memory, thousands of Li ion cells, Clark transforms, Park transforms, PID control, fuzzy logic, PWM, torque vectoring, neural nets, AI.... A real testament to the KISS priniciple!

 

[Cyber1qhorsey]

Remember your PCs. Reboots, blue windows, hours on phone with tech service. Weeks waiting for repairs or mother boards... Could be the model T for our century? I hope not!

 

[lukefrisbee]

Ah, yes. Nothing like the simplicity of millions of transistors, hundreds of thousands of lines of code, gigabytes of memory, thousands of Li ion cells, Clark transforms, Park transforms, PID control, fuzzy logic, PWM, torque vectoring, neural nets, AI.... A real testament to the KISS priniciple!

And there was a vocal crowd of people claiming the same thing about "The horseless carriage". "A horse and carriage is a lot less complicated."
And if you think the Cyber is "complicated" just wait.

 

[ajdelange]

Certainly the Model T's broke down a lot but they were simple. You could fix them yourself. You won't be fixing the CT (or any other Tesla) yourself unless you are some savant like Rich.

The saving grace here is that electronic hardware is soooo much more reliable than mechanical stuff and that software, which is never fully working, can, in many cases, be fixed remotely.

I suppose this is a good place to discuss how one gets these "simple" Teslas repaired as you will see horror stories if you look on the other Tesla bulletin board sites. If the biggest thing steering people away from Rivian is lack of access to the SC network the biggest thing steering them away from Tesla would be service. It is not as bad as the angry souls on the web would want you to think but there is room for improvement. And I believe many of the problems stemmed from the 3 ramp and as that has moved into history I think things are getting better.

While the reliability of the mechanical parts is much better than ICE (largely because the moving parts count is so low) there are problems with those parts that remain such as the half shafts on the X (I'm not sure they ever solved that one). And, of course, things like the gaskets ans seals that keep weather out are the same.

Those of you that work in software development know where I am going with this. A colleague of mine used to say that the difference between hardware problems and software problems is that you can fix the hardware.

I've had few problems with my X. Gaskets came loose and suddenly my wife could not adjust the passenger seat. The way Tesla does service now is that you schedule an appointment through the app - they have phone numbers but they don't answer the phones and they have taken the ability to schedule service from one's account pages away. The really good news is that they will often come to you house or place of business to do the repair which is what they have done with all my problems and they sent very nice competent guys to do the work. There are some entertaining details that reflect on the simplicity of the "do it in software" approach such as that one repairs a seat that can't be positioned by reprogramming it and that that can't be done unless the tech's lap top is connected to the mother ship and that while he can connect to the mother ship through any internet connection he must be in certain locations in the cellular network for the system to allow him to authenticate.

Those of you with Telsa's will have similar anecdotes, I'm sure but those who don't need to be aware that even though Tesla has been making cars for quite a while now and has dealt with many problems you are still, to some extent, first adopters and need to be prepared for some of the downsides that implies. It's all part of the adventure.

 

[lukefrisbee]

Certainly the Model T's broke down a lot but they were simple. You could fix them yourself. You won't be fixing the CT (or any other Tesla) yourself unless you are some savant like Rich..

and AGAIN... you are thinking Forward, not backwards... when people like you all look back at the Model "T"esla they will laugh at how simple it was.
There were a bunch of good ol boys claiming the "horseless carriage" was to complicated and "unfixable" by a normal person.
I hope you are able to see how your opinion is that of someone not thinking of the whole picture.
(I have to admit even with my negative opinion of the human race I did not think I would see this kind of thinking on this site. It just lets me see that the Model "T"esla is being purchased by a broad spectrum of humanity.)
Or as the common man would have said. "COME ON MAN!"

 

[lukefrisbee]

and for the people not quite able to understand how simple the Model "T"esla will be seen....
https://www.realclearscience.com/ar...e_vs_apollo_11s_guidance_computer_111026.html
This isn't about how YOU see it.
It is how it will be seen.... read a little bit more critically, instead of being critical

 

[ajdelange]

I hope I always think forward and I recognize the importance of critical thinking and how lacking it is in western civilization today. But whatever mode my brain (what's left of it) is in I am trying to understand how you can put a Model T with its hundreds of parts next to a modern BEV with its millions, add the dimension of software and call them comparably simple. You say it isn't how I see it implying that you, and the majority, see it differently - very differently. Perhaps, based on the link, you think the modern smart phone is simpler than the Apollo computer because the smart phone has fewer buttons on it and by implication that the masses can be induced to think that a CT is simpler than a Model T. And perhaps that's so. But that's going to take some time. I was just thinking yesterday that Tesla is going to want to get rid of all those neat power consumption and navigation displays just as Detroit got rid of voltmeters and replaced them with idiot lights. My wife does NOT think the Model X is simpler than my old MG.

You express surprise that critical thinking is found on this site. Did you think it populated entirely by lemmings? Ten percent of the population is in the top tenth percentile for intelligence and some number of those are going to have technical backgrounds.. I would expect a disproportionally large techie population here.

... when people like you all look back at the Model "T"esla they will laugh at how simple it was.

Not likely as I have been watching technology's rate of advancement over many years now and have a pretty good feel for the rates. Moore's law is still not running out of steam. That doesn't mean that I am not impressed when I look back even 10 years.

 

[lukefrisbee]

I hope I always think forward and I recognize the importance of critical thinking and how lacking it is in western civilization today. But whatever mode my brain (what's left of it) is in I am trying to understand how you can put a Model T with its hundreds of parts next to a modern BEV with its millions, add the dimension of software and call them comparably simple. You say it isn't how I see it implying that you, and the majority, see it differently - very differently. Perhaps, based on the link, you think the modern smart phone is simpler than the Apollo computer because the smart phone has fewer buttons on it and by implication that the masses can be induced to think that a CT is simpler than a Model T. And perhaps that's so. But that's going to take some time. I was just thinking yesterday that Tesla is going to want to get rid of all those neat power consumption and navigation displays just as Detroit got rid of voltmeters and replaced them with idiot lights. My wife does NOT think the Model X is simpler than my old MG.

You express surprise that critical thinking is found on this site. Did you think it populated entirely by lemmings? Ten percent of the population is in the top tenth percentile for intelligence and some number of those are going to have technical backgrounds.. I would expect a disproportionately large techie population here.

If you think forward you'd think from the wrong perspective. You have to think backwards. Put yourself 40 years in the future and think back to the Cyber. Yeah, it will be "one of the most simple EV's ever brought to market." PERIOD. This vehicle will be simple to those that live in the 2060's. And you completely got wrong the comparison of the SIMPLE Apollo computer and the COMPLICATED smartphone of today. How you did that only you know.
The Apollo computer during its time was considered one of the most complicated machines outside of a big black building in area 52. But that was then, Now? TODAY, we look at the Apollo's Computer as a very simple limited computer... and your cell phone as several times more complicated. So I have no idea how you could confuse what I was comparing.
And just as those ol' men in the feed store looked at The Model T as if it were something so foreign and technically impossible to understand or fix, YOU seem to think that the Cyber is some extremely difficult and complicated machine. And you fail to take into account how advanced/technically-complex vehicles will be in 40-60 years. (Hell, in 40 years the Cyber will be difficult to work on because it is TOO simple.)
And you even misread the part about Critical Thinking...It is not the same as being critical.
The Model "T"esla is going to be seen as the Model T of THIS century (We still have 80 years to go). Ajdelange, you are an excellent example of why it seems to be like the Model T of the 20th century when the Model T was introduced in THAT century by responding with such a limited understanding of the vehicle and its place in the future.

 

[ajdelange]

Yeah, I gotta admit I don't understand this enjuniring stuff real good.

 

[Saskateam]

Ford changed everything with the Model A and the assembly line. The Model T came as a result. I see Tesla changing everything with the Roadster and the CT came as a result. The Model T and the CT are equally revolutionary.

 

[lukefrisbee]

Ford changed everything with the Model A and the assembly line. The Model T came as a result. I see Tesla changing everything with the Roadster and the CT came as a result. The Model T and the CT are equally revolutionary.

I ain't sure till they dig me up in 50 years and show me, but yeah, I am thinking that is where the Cyber (Model "T"esla) will be that big a deal.... from horses to ICE driven by humans, to Electric-powered Robotic transport vehicles. And while not the first, the Cyber might be the most notable of the group once fifty years has passed. And that it might mirror the Model T in almost every way.

 

[ajdelange]

The BEV represents a paradigm shift in the transportation industry (IMO, of course) and it took a couple of things to bring it about: Lithium ions, the high voltage FET and Elon. The previous paradigm shift in this industry similarly depended on a chemistry (don't confuse Elon the man with 4-(methylamino)phenol sulfate sold under the trade name Elon), a technology and a personality namely alkanes (gasoline), interchangeable parts (the assembly line) and Henry. The CT is not revolutionary - it is evolutionary. The revolution has already taken place.

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