Mustang Mach-E Real World Range (Big problem)

CybertruckAgent

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This post isn’t Cybertruck related, but seems relevant enough that this group would appreciate it.
I was on Autotrader scoping out the Mach-E, and I noticed something peculiar, the quoted range figures are way off what the vehicles are displaying. Notice some of the screen grabs. Mustangs with 88-99% charge having a stated range of less than 200 miles. These are the Premium trim ones with the “large” battery packs as well. The Sellers list the manufacturer range as 270. I understand the Mustang’s computer will adjust the miles available depending on driving style, but that shouldn’t account for 40-50% fewer miles than advertised. Plus it’s multiple vehicles in multiple states. I’d hate to have ordered one of these and discover you only get 170 miles between charges! Yikes...

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braddibbnd

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Also noticed the pic with the 114 mile range with 75% battery was in a snow filled lot. Even Tesla drivers have to adjust for cold weather. Would like to see what the temp was on the 127 mile range with 93% battery tho.
And if the sellers thought they could make money reselling a new MachE with those stats on the dashboard, an expensive lesson might be in their future.
 

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Range is based on how the last driver drove.

This is true of ICE vehicles, too.

It has little to do with the condition of the battery, generally.

-Crissa
I had a great example of this with my ICE (hybrid) pickup truck today.

My range meter usually reports about 450 miles for a full tank at an average mileage of around 18MPG.

I towed a travel trailer for about 90 miles yesterday, and arrived at my destination with an almost empty gas tank. Mileage was about 10MPG with about 25 gallons usable, so MPG meter would have read about 250 miles with a full gas tank.

When I unhitched the trailer, my real-life MPG immediately returned to normal -- but the backward-looking statistics on my dashboard took about 100 miles to catch up (even though I thought I reset the meter).

That's just what happens when you use moving averages to predict the future.

The same thing happens to EVs. The fundamental math is the same, even though the units are different.

If the Mach-E's last driver took it to the track, it's going to report a shorter range than if its last driver treated it like a Prius. 🤷‍♂️
 
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CybertruckAgent

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Also noticed the pic with the 114 mile range with 75% battery was in a snow filled lot. Even Tesla drivers have to adjust for cold weather. Would like to see what the temp was on the 127 mile range with 93% battery tho.
And if the sellers thought they could make money reselling a new MachE with those stats on the dashboard, an expensive lesson might be in their future.
I’ve seen some quote up to 20% loss due to cold, this is more like 50%. Yikes! Glad I reserved the Tri-Motor if this is normal in winter conditions.
 
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CybertruckAgent

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I’ve seen some quote up to 20% loss due to cold, this is more like 50%. Yikes! Glad I reserved the Tri-Motor if this is normal in winter conditions.
Also there is one “first edition” up for resale, and the owner put lots of photos but conveniently none showing the range... 🤔
 

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...Also, my Zero doesn't take into account temperature, but temperature lowers the voltage of the pack, which is why it has lower range in winter.

A Mach-E probably doesn't have that problem, but I doubt it predicts your climate control settings or weather.

The newest range prediction in a Tesla knows a little about hills, and they've teased it knowing weather, but I don't think it does, either.

-Crissa
 

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Could it be that Ford, in a hurry to beat other Big Three car manufacturers, put out an abomination that just won't work in the real world? I mean, come on, I don't care how the last guy drove, if I'm driving an electric Mustang, and have 93% battery, I'm not gonna be happy about a range of 127 miles. Back to the drawing board, boys.
 
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I’ve found on my Model 3 in subzero temps to get roughly 40% worse efficiency at the worst. Typically I’ll see 20% on anything 20°F and above. Obviously there are a lot of factors too. You mash the pedal (easy to do in a Tesla), your efficiency reduces. I often run my temp between 68 and 70, and rely more on the seat heater unless the little one is in the car. Using shore power to pre-heat the car before leaving helps, but also raises your electricity bill fiercely.

If you’re worried about getting 300 miles on a good day for a trip, Tri-Motor is where you’ll want to look. I don’t tow yet, but I have made trips 150 miles one way, and just used a 20 amp outlet to trickle charge until I need to leave. If that’s not available, I hit a supercharger. Ideal temp is 70 and above, so for us northern folks..expect reduction in range.

I used to worry about range, before I owned the vehicle, you just adjust. If you’re serious about getting an EV and haven’t tried one yet, the “limitation” isn’t a consideration day in and day out for most of you. The vehicle will be worth it, and starting every day with your preferred charging level, is a unique experience. Rarely do you see someone say, “I just couldn’t make it work”.
 

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I’ve found on my Model 3 in subzero temps to get roughly 40% worse efficiency at the worst. Typically I’ll see 20% on anything 20°F and above. Obviously there are a lot of factors too. You mash the pedal (easy to do in a Tesla), your efficiency reduces.
I've found almost no hit to efficiency from accelerating much harder than normal. It's the higher speeds that are typical with this kind of driving and especially the regen or braking that's typically required after a burst of speed that kills efficiency. If you just accelerate hard up to your normal cruising speed there is almost no efficiency hit compared to gradually accelerating to the same speed. While regen is well known for increasing the range vs. a car that has regen turned off, this does not mean you should speed up so you can use regen more.

This is supported by the efficiency curves of modern EV motors. While electric motors are slightly less efficient near maximum torque, the difference is not night and day. You can also enter a slightly less efficient part of the torque curve by being too gentle with your acceleration. But these differences are almost entirely out-weighed by how much regen and braking you do. Regen only captures a bit over 50% of the energy it absorbs so the more you can avoid needing to use it, the higher your miles/kWh rating will be.

Friction braking is over twice as bad but is easier to avoid. Some people, when cruising in a line of cars going around 50 mph will constantly go from a light acceleration to light regen braking. Even though their speed is only varying by 2-3 mph, it will be repeatedly regen braking, very lightly but regen braking nevertheless. This will reduce efficiency over a driver that maintains a steady speed without entering light regen. Being smooth at your chosen cruising speed will help your efficiency more than the tiny loss from robust acceleration, particularly if you are only asking for 75% of maximum acceleration. To keep up with normal traffic leaving a stop light at a brisker than average pace only requires something in the neighborhood of 10% of total torque, which is too slow for maximum efficiency.

In a gas car, going very light on the throttle will typically achieve optimum efficiency. In a Tesla, it is quite different. You want to be near the middle of the torque curve, which is surprisingly brisk acceleration, to achieve maximum efficiency.
 

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Could it be that Ford, in a hurry to beat other Big Three car manufacturers, put out an abomination that just won't work in the real world? I mean, come on, I don't care how the last guy drove, if I'm driving an electric Mustang, and have 93% battery, I'm not gonna be happy about a range of 127 miles. Back to the drawing board, boys.
They made that mistake with the C-Max Energi plugin hybrid.

It was a great little car (I test drove one and loved it), but the real-world MPGs didn't match the window-sticker. So, green car enthusiasts (the target market) weren't interested and the model never found a market.
 

Blue Steel

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This has everything to do with how it’s been driven. Especially before it’s purchased. A lot of people (transport people, dealer employees, customers) are getting in those cars for a few miles and driving it like they stole it. Most of them have probably never driven an EV before.

Every new car I have ever bought showed very very poor mpg at the time of purchase. Just last week I bought a Prius Prime. It had about 25 miles on the odometer and showed an average mpg of 35. Since then I’ve added about 100 miles and my average mpg has risen to 85.
 

Crissa

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To take an example from my Zero:


Eco
Custom
Sport
Throttle​
Power​
Low
Middle​
High​
Throttle​
Regen​
High​
Low​
Middle​
Brake​
Regen​
Middle​
High​
Low​


Which mode is the most range efficient? Eco, Custom, or Sport?

Custom

For most riding, Custom is the most efficient. You want to coast instead of regen to make the most use of your momentum.

Eco is the most efficient in stop and go. Because it limits throttle power and gives you the smoothest strong regen.

And there are even time when Sport is the most efficient. Like hills that you need exactly that much regen.

But if you rode in Sport all the time, it's very likely you're using your friction braking and chirping the tires and going over target speed and that will jusy kill any range estimates. If you're at the edge of grip, it's very likely you're turning energy into heat instead of motion. Every step of of an EV's power to road is less efficient at that edge. From the battery heating from voltage draw, the wires heating from amperage, motor heating from energizing, the cooling system being activated, the tires heating from torque, the brakes heating from stopping. Each one at a certain point increase the resistance and energy consumption.

-Crissa
 

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