Off Road Performance

Ogre

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...trails, some hill climbs , muddy holes here and there, a few rocks to "get over", shallow water crossings ...
The kind of off-roading most people actually do.

"High speed" or baja type off roading.
And the kind we enjoy watching on TV but very very very few people actually participate in.

So EVs are perfect for off-roading.
 

SwampNut

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Flying through washes in the CA desert is pre-runner territory, but if you're not actually racing, an EV can do this quite well. My Jeep is not at all built for it, but I'm just goofing off within its limits.

The only two people I know with Raptors have refused my invitations to come with me because they don't want to abuse their trucks. LOL!
 


rr6013

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Also depends on your idea or style off "off-roading".

For the most basic "common" definition, it is things that most SUVs/jeeps do. trails, some hill climbs , muddy holes here and there, a few rocks to "get over", shallow water crossings ... essentially the slow things that most SUVs/jeeps are suited for or you need to do in order to get to places for adventure/camping. For an EV like the Rivian or cyber, that should be just fine. Slow speeds and many stops is actually perfect for EV range.

However, there is another type of off roading that EVs are absolutely garbage at (for now). "High speed" or baja type off roading. Their massive weight, and limited range when operating at high speeds, is not good at all. I think at the recent San Felipe 250 race where Lordstowns motors ran their EV pick up , it only saw them make it 40 miles on the racecourse. When you are out in the dunes or going through the woops there is major drag on the car and in order to keep the speed and fun up you have to mash that pedal. I know there are custom EV race vehicles that have raced in rally events and desert racing but the results are not encouraging for range. Also they are purpose built race cars with proper suspension. The direction both the rivian and cyber went with suspension is for normal use / low speed off roading. Air ride is the worst possible spring set up you can have for high speed stuff. Within 10 mins of desert trails in the cyber truck , that poor air chamber +dampener will be 300+F. super hot! I think both trucks will only have 8-9" of total wheel travel (not "lift" or "adjustability" , which means nothing when your suspension is cycling through harsh terrain). this is insufficient. Basically these EV trucks went the opposite direction of what a Ford Raptor was built to do.
Fair enough. most people don't off road like that or even know that's possible outside places like the South West.


edit*. motor sports or pushing a car to the extreme is not pointless. Under these conditions you can see what a car is capable of and improve upon it. Imagine how many practical car things that are in use for street cars now days were born out of motor sports (disk breaks...). For now, it is still kind of discouraging that at the top of almost all motor sports , ICE is still the best. think about it. F1 car vs Formula E? look at their top speeds and race distances. Rally/desert racing? Even what EVs are supposedly "good" at, drag racing, gets absolutely crushed by something like an NRHA drag car. There is way way way more energy per time by pumping nitromethane in and engine vs the best EV batteries being discharged in a drag ! It highlights the fundamental draw back...batteries. their range and energy density :(
Fair unbiased set of assumptions. Also fair recognition that CT isn’t a Baja1000 designed offroad vehicle. Best contribution to the discussion of offroad vehicles dividing into trail, watercross, adventure AND competitive track, high speed desert, racing.

Range is still KING

Correct. Battery electric vehicles can’t beat internal combustion engines in a race involving range.
Correct. BEV weight due to battery is dead weight carried regardless of energy consumed. ICE energy consumed lose weight gaining time and distance over the course of a race.
Correct. Air suspension is not for whoops in the desert at any speed.

ICE is dead

Battery is the best energy form factor available to disrupt, displace and supersede CO2 internal combustion vehicles.
San Diego climate is best in the world for places to live and BEV will be the best vehicle you can get after ICE are no more.
Tesla is your best bet to place, show and win for replacing the longest selling truck FORD pickup. Elon has said it will beat the F-150.
Elon said he wanted to race Baja.

It’s only my personal opinion that Elon doesn’t lipservice remarks lightly, for shock value nor for patronizing press or its competition. FORD Raptor is Cybertruck's competitor. It would be a self-sabotage own goal to produce a pickup faster than a Raptor that couldn’t keep up when the going gets rough.

Raptor is EOL vehicle.

FORD doing it does best, has integrated battery into new pickups to transition its fleet, its loyal buyers and its brand to electric. Correct right at this moment, ICE reign supreme off-road, desert, dunes and racing. In five years this moment will have passed. The scene, the climate and the market won’t last much longer for ICE. BUT you are correct!
 

rodmacpherson

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My 2018 Volt does not do well off-road because of ground clearance.
No kidding. My 2014 Volt can't really handle "Off roading" up my paved driveway due to ground clearance. I replaced the air dam with a shorter one at first, but then when that ripped off I didn't bother doing it again. The bottom still scrapes 1/2 the time.
Don't get me wrong, I love that car, but it is not in any way designed to go off road.
 

2000prerunner

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The kind of off-roading most people actually do.



And the kind we enjoy watching on TV but very very very few people actually participate in.

So EVs are perfect for off-roading.
You should come out to glamis or ocotillo wells during desert season. Some big weekends see 100,000 (thanksgiving or New Years) people out there . That jeep , over landing stuff is cool and all , and many people still do that out here in CA/AZ but the market and people who rip across the desert here is many many many . Rzr, sand rails , Baja bugs, prerunners, race vehicles all sell here and are not some “niche” thing where we can actually use them . I mean even manufacturers saw this like Ford raptor, Ram trx and originally the lame Tacoma “prerunner” and Nissan Frontier “desert runner”. So it’s not uncommon for people to want to drive faster off road and not putt along like a turtle .
With that said , I can’t wait to take my cyber truck out to ocotillo wells on opening Halloween weekend in 2022! ….and potentially tow it home trying to prove how cool I am lol.
 

jhogan2424

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You should come out to glamis or ocotillo wells during desert season. Some big weekends see 100,000 (thanksgiving or New Years) people out there . That jeep , over landing stuff is cool and all , and many people still do that out here in CA/AZ but the market and people who rip across the desert here is many many many . Rzr, sand rails , Baja bugs, prerunners, race vehicles all sell here and are not some “niche” thing where we can actually use them . I mean even manufacturers saw this like Ford raptor, Ram trx and originally the lame Tacoma “prerunner” and Nissan Frontier “desert runner”. So it’s not uncommon for people to want to drive faster off road and not putt along like a turtle .
With that said , I can’t wait to take my cyber truck out to ocotillo wells on opening Halloween weekend in 2022! ….and potentially tow it home trying to prove how cool I am lol.
If a Raptor and TRX are not “niche” then I don’t know what is.
 

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Correct right at this moment, ICE reign supreme off-road, desert, dunes and racing. In five years this moment will have passed.
ICE will not be surpassed for extreme uses until the next major battery innovation.

If you wanna haul heavy things cross country, or race long races in an EV, then range under extreme load, and fill up times must be improved.
 


SwampNut

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You should come out to glamis or ocotillo wells during desert season. Some big weekends see 100,000 (thanksgiving or New Years) people out there .
Those are the weekends I avoid, but I suppose it's worth seeing once. But such a zoo. At the last event in Ocotillo, a friend has his Jeep totaled by a drunk cop.

Tesla Cybertruck Off Road Performance 1628782112959
 

Ogre

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I keep going back and forth on whether I'm going to add the Unplugged Performance off road suspension kit on my Model Y. Fortunately it's been on backorder the entire
ICE will not be surpassed for extreme uses until the next major battery innovation.

If you wanna haul heavy things cross country, or race long races in an EV, then range under extreme load, and fill up times must be improved.
Tesla does not make cars for this sort of event. Nobody does at this point.

But battery swap technology exists, soon enough someone will make an EV car for endurance type events. In the mean time, EVs more or less off the shelf can thrash ICE cars at sprints and shorter races. I'm pretty certain once the Cybertruck and Rivian get out there the result will be similar.
 

2000prerunner

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Those are the weekends I avoid, but I suppose it's worth seeing once. But such a zoo. At the last event in Ocotillo, a friend has his Jeep totaled by a drunk cop.

1628782112959.jpeg

Woah, I hope he was ok.

Yes it can be insane out there. Generally we like to camp far away and jt "observe" from a nice safe distance. In Glamis this is almost impossible.

Since the early 2000s I have been off roading/modifying my trucks and going out to ocotillo/Anza (right when I got my license). I've been to Utah and done all sorts of off roading. It's all fun and I will never quite this hobby. Hopefully get my kid into it as well.


Still , nothing beats good ol speed. Night time driving with you lights on skipping over the desert is probably next best thing to heroin o_O . I'm all in on EVs. Going for the CT and I have no doubt it's the only sane choice for a family truck. It's just that part of me that love high speed desert off roading!
I think realistically the best option for an EV "prerunner" Is buy a built , baja bug, prerunner - tacoma/ranger/full size (with suspension roll cage and all) then pay a shop like EV West to do a full EV conversion. It will be 20k to convent and probably will only get 50 miles range out in the dez, but I guess you can always bring your 220 V gas generator along :). That solution is way more practical than modifying a unibody stainless steel brand new cyber truck.
 

SwampNut

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(right when I got my license).
LOL! I got my learner's permit on a Friday, and then the next day I learned to drive our 24' motorhome with a 16' boat attached to, from Hacienda Heights to Salton Sea.

Night time driving with you lights on skipping over the desert is probably next best thing to heroin
I love running the washes night at "float" speed, when you're still in control but edging it. In a Jeep, that's slower than purpose-built machines, but fun.
 

Ogre

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I think realistically the best option for an EV "prerunner" Is buy a built , baja bug, prerunner - tacoma/ranger/full size (with suspension roll cage and all) then pay a shop like EV West to do a full EV conversion. It will be 20k to convent and probably will only get 50 miles range out in the dez, but I guess you can always bring your 220 V gas generator along :). That solution is way more practical than modifying a unibody stainless steel brand new cyber truck.
I think you are going backward with this idea. You are better getting a damaged Model 3 or Model Y and converting it for desert running.

https://www.teslaoracle.com/2021/08/09/watch-these-guys-build-the-ultimate-tesla-model-3-off-roader/

The setup these guys did is more for mudding, but you could build one out for desert running instead.
Sponsored

 
 




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