Possibility of dual controls/detachable yoke in Europe/UK/Ireland.

Peter Gallagher

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With most of the controls being on the yoke or central console, I was wondering whether right hand drive models of the Cybertruck could essentially be the left hand version but with dual controls* an F1 style detachable yoke, so when the car is stationary, you can detach the yoke and attach it to either the left or right steering shaft connection. The accelerator and break pedals will be disabled on the side that does not have the yoke...

Advantages: will facilitate driving through Europe/UK/Ireland.
* Drivetrain will be the standard left hand drive with dual brake/accelerator
Disadvantages: yoke will contain an explosive airbag, so I would not want to drop it :)

Alternative: The "wolverine" model could have the Tesla semi/McClaren F1 driving position... so still 3 seats upfront but the driver would have a central seating position, with the central console being split into two screens... enabling a narrower truck with the same configuration for all of Europe... great position for off road driving too and the "side mirror" displays would be in a more "natural" position.





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Crissa

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Currently US regulations require a mechanical link or a backup mechanical linkage so drive-by-wire systems are very rare.

-Crissa
 

firsttruck

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Currently US regulations require a mechanical link or a backup mechanical linkage so drive-by-wire systems are very rare.

Tesla looking into steer-by-wire with new development team at Austin
Thread starter TruckElectric Start date Oct 12, 2020
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...ire-with-new-development-team-at-austin.1794/



Sandy Munro recommend that Tesla use joystick instead of steering wheel.

Is Sandy wrong?

Is a mechanical link really required in U.S.?


[Audio Fixed] Tips for Tesla E1 - Steering and Weight Reduction
Munro Live
Jul 8, 2020
 
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Crissa

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Tesla looking into steer-by-wire with new development team at Austin
That's future, not now. Call back in five, ten years. The Cybertruck is focused on the North American market.

Sandy Munro recommend that Tesla use joystick instead of steering wheel.

Is Sandy wrong?
If that's what he said, yes. A joystick is a terrible UI because of input to output ratio. It's just not as accurate as a wheel or yoke.

Is a mechanical link really required in U.S.?
Currently.

-Crissa
 

firsttruck

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Might be sooner than 5 years


------------------------


2021 Infiniti Q60
https://www.infinitiusa.com/vehicles/coupes/q60/features.html


.....
DIRECT ADAPTIVE STEERING ** has mechanical backup
World's First Technology
After many years of research and development, Q60’s optional Second-generation Direct Adaptive Steering® is here to revolutionize how we drive. This system digitally and instantaneously transmits your steering input directly to the wheels. Its digital processing power lets you steer quicker and smoother than you ever imagined. When you are driving on rough or uneven roads, the system is constantly, automatically making subtle adjustments to give you an increased feeling of stability, while decreasing vibration through the steering wheel.


Infiniti Direct Adaptive Steering (DAS) One Year Review
Jan 9, 2019
KayDro Technologies


2019 INFINITI Q60 INSIGHTS: Steering Choices
May 2, 2019
INFINITI


------------------------


2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 EV
UK delivery commence the third quarter of 2021
USA delivery commence the third quarter of 2022


The Ioniq 5 has drive- and steer-by-wire tech.
No steering column. No backup mechanical steering?

Towing 3,500 lbs. ( 1,600 kg )


Hyundai's striking Ioniq 5 EV offers long range and brisk performance
By Steve Dent
February 23rd, 2021
https://www.engadget.com/hyundais-s...ng-range-and-brisk-performance-093212320.html


Hyundai Ioniq 5 For U.S Market Is Filmed Driving In South Korea
Mar 09, 2021
By: Gustavo Henrique Ruffo
https://insideevs.com/news/493165/hyundai-ioniq-5-american-market-south-korea/


------------------------


Exclusive look at Cruise’s first driverless car without a steering wheel or pedals
The Origin is the GM subsidiary’s first attempt to build an fully autonomous car from the ground up
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Jan 21, 2020
https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/21/...steering-wheel-pedals-ev-exclusive-first-look


GM unveils autonomous Bolt EV without steering wheel or pedal, aims to bring it to market next year
By Fred Lambert
2018 Jan 12
https://electrek.co/2018/01/12/gm-unveils-autonomous-bolt-ev-without-steering-wheel-pedal/


Cruise, GM to seek U.S. okay for self-driving vehicle without pedal, steering wheel
By Reuters Staff
October 21, 2020
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autonomous-cruise-nhtsa-idUSKBN2762SP


------------------------


Zoox reveals autonomous ride-sharing boxcar with no steering wheel
( Zoox is owned by Amazon)
By Sasha Lekach
Dec 14, 2020
https://mashable.com/article/zoox-robotaxi-reveal-amazon/


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Crissa

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Autonomous cars don't count, they don't need a steering wheel so don't have the requirement.

-Crissa
 

rr6013

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Tesla looking into steer-by-wire with new development team at Austin
Thread starter TruckElectric Start date Oct 12, 2020
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...ire-with-new-development-team-at-austin.1794/



Sandy Munro recommend that Tesla use joystick instead of steering wheel.

Is Sandy wrong?

Is a mechanical link really required in U.S.?


[Audio Fixed] Tips for Tesla E1 - Steering and Weight Reduction
Munro Live
Jul 8, 2020
Sandy Munroe is correct once steer input is drive-by-wire. The necessity to turn the wheel rotationally becomes anachronism.

Electronics are response centric and responsible for the adaptive or FM (frequency modulation)smoothing variabilty for inputs/feedback. A stick simplifies the metaphorical response to match the actuation occurring in realtime. Where applying real-time feedback digitally into an analog sensor involves translations. Translations that must differ by degrees.

A stick eliminates windmilling substituting directional pressure as a better means to gauge duration/amount of turn-in at the wheels. It improves a drive by metaphor steering-by-wheel introduced whereby drivers needed to learn to guage where and in which direction car wheels were turned through trial&error, by feel and/or anthropomorphic assimilation by drivers(lacking “ism” for auto.v. animal).

Yoke steer steps in the electronic direction introducing sensory inputs of stick steer while keeping learned behavior instincts developed with steering wheels. Incrementally, human adaptation to yoke transitions easier and simpler now and future should sensors dictate move away from yoke’s degrees of freedom.

At the end of the day, FSD is emergent. The yoke .v. stick debate mute. Elon cracked autonomous driving. FSD’s current beta incarnation iterates over a solution set tuned to non-FSD drivers, EV manufacturers and WallSt investors. Tesla has absolutely no reason to release its crown jewel in light of all the competition that is non-existent. So Tesla iterates, tests and DOJO will add finish no competitor can match.
 

VolklKatana

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I am 100% sure that it not going to happen....it add complexity to the vehicle which is the exact opposite of what they are trying to achieve with the CT.
 

Crissa

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The yoke .v. stick debate mute. Elon cracked autonomous driving.
Yes. But 'moot'. It's not mute, we're going to be talking about FSD for years. ^-^

I am 100% sure that it not going to happen....it add complexity to the vehicle which is the exact opposite of what they are trying to achieve with the CT.
In many ways, drive by wire is becoming simpler.

-Crissa
 

madquadbiker

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With most of the controls being on the yoke or central console, I was wondering whether right hand drive models of the Cybertruck could essentially be the left hand version but with dual controls* an F1 style detachable yoke, so when the car is stationary, you can detach the yoke and attach it to either the left or right steering shaft connection. The accelerator and break pedals will be disabled on the side that does not have the yoke...

Advantages: will facilitate driving through Europe/UK/Ireland.
* Drivetrain will be the standard left hand drive with dual brake/accelerator
Disadvantages: yoke will contain an explosive airbag, so I would not want to drop it :)

Alternative: The "wolverine" model could have the Tesla semi/McClaren F1 driving position... so still 3 seats upfront but the driver would have a central seating position, with the central console being split into two screens... enabling a narrower truck with the same configuration for all of Europe... great position for off road driving too and the "side mirror" displays would be in a more "natural" position.
But the look on other drivers faces especially the cops seeing no one in the drivers seat and just you in the passengers seat with a PlayStation controller driving it, priceless.
 

VolklKatana

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Yes. But 'moot'. It's not mute, we're going to be talking about FSD for years. ^-^


In many ways, drive by wire is becoming simpler.

-Crissa
i meant the interchangeable left/right hand drive option, i have no doubt drive by wire will be the way of the road soon
 

Crissa

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Interchangeable left-right has shown up on some concept trucks, but none are in production. The design was to ise a simpler snap-in wire harness like Tesla is using so yes, it might be trivial at some point.

-Crissa
 

firsttruck

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------------------------


For many years there have already been thousands of drivers on U.S. roads using steer-by-wire joystick systems. In 2004 it was estimated to be thousands of vehicles. Now the number is estimated to be much higher.

These are drivers that can not physically turn normal steering wheels so even though the standard steering wheel is there these drivers can not use them. Same for accelerator pedal & brake pedal. The backup has no value to them and in fact having a steering wheel & column increases chance of severe injury in crash.


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Joystick Driven Car modified by EasyDrivewc
Mar 8, 2018
Tonys WebWork


------------------------


Person with Quadriplegia Driving an Accessible Van with an EMC Joystick
Toyota Sienna in 2011
AEVIT 2.0 Joystick http://emc-digi.com
Jul 6, 2012
Dan Harvey


EMC, LLC ( Augusta, ME USA)
[email protected]
http://emc-digi.com

The J-Series input device is a Gas, Brake & Steering system

That utilizes a multi-axis joystick input device. Motion in the X-axis is for Steering and the Y-axis motion is for Gas & Brake. The exposed height of the joystick is approximately 4.25″ and an angular displacement, or range, of only 50 degrees is required to move the input from the full left steer position to full right steer or from the full gas position to full brake. As with all AEVIT Gas & Brake systems, the Gas & Brake input direction can be programmed by your Dealer to be either gas forward or brake forward.


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BraunAbility – the global leader in mobility products. Now with over 45 years of industry-leading experience, BraunAbility is the global leader of mobility solutions
https://www.braunability.com/us/en.html

.....
Acceleration and Brake Controls
You can take advantage of hand control to maneuver your vehicle. Push and pull hand controls may be used by those who are trained, and this allows for seamless braking and accelerating. Hand controls are inclusive accessory options that assist individuals with all levels of injuries and capabilities.

A joystick is a great option for individuals looking for a wide range of motion. Joysticks now have four-way capabilities to control steering, accelerating, and braking. The use of decoupled speed and active force features on joysticks have been tested to be very easy to learn.


------------------------


Update on Safety Issues for Vehicles Adapted for Use by People with Disabilities
Research Note March 2004
U.S. Department of Transportation Bureau of Transportation Statistics
Prepared by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics for the NHTSA
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/8-adapteddisability.pdf

.....
The 1990 National Health Interview Survey (NHIS-D) estimated 299,000 adaptive equipment users, while the 1and 1995 NHIS-D estimated 510,000, an increase of 211,000 users over a five-year period.

.....
In December of 1997 NHTSA estimated the number of vehicles modified for those with disabilities to be 383,000 The number of vehicles with adaptive equipment is expected to continue to increase as the U.S. population ages and as access to employment, travel, and recreation continues to improve for persons with disabilities, as a result of the ADA.

.....
Because the responses are obtained by inviting respondents participate rather than by a random sample of the universe of users, results may not be representative the total population of adapted vehicle users. The total of 398 respondents who completed the questionnaire between May 1997 and November 2003 is also small by survey standards. The result however, do provide NHTSA with insight into potential safety issues for adapted vehicles.

.....
Table 2 Types of Modifications
Type of Modification ----- Percent of Total
Hand control ----- 50%
Joystick / other steering system ----- 4%


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firsttruck

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Joystick Racer - Steer-by-wire at 200 km/h on race track
A childhood dream becomes reality for Janis McDavid
https://www.paravan.com/company/new...tick-racer-mit-200-km/h-ueber-die-rennstrecke


PARAVAN drive-by-wire
Digital high-tech driving and steering system for the mobility of tomorrow
The PARAVAN Space Drive drive-by-wire system is a perfectly coordinated digital driving and steering system (hardware and software) that includes a revolutionary new safety concept. The system is individually adaptable to an extremely wide range of safety-related applications in the automotive sector, in agricultural technology, construction machine technology, municipal vehicles, special-purpose vehicles and the defence industry – and it also forms a separate branch in the disability-friendly mobility sector, from which it originated.
https://www.paravan.com/technology/paravan-drive-by-wire


PARAVAN Hyundai H1 Van conversion for disabled drivers
The entire package consisting of the wheelchair, docking station and vehicle adaptation has been successfully crash-tested in line with the requirements of the German Road Traffic Licensing Regulation ECE-R 17 guideline and is approved in accordance with Section 35a of the StVZO . This unique mobility solution is rounded off by the digital-electronic “Space Drive” driving and steering system. The innovative, multi-redundant drive-by-wire system even allows people with very little strength to drive comfortably without using a steering wheel or pedals; instead they use a joystick or mini steering wheel.
https://www.paravan.com/product-sol...ivers-and-front-passengers/paravan-hyundai-h1
 
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