Honoring Original Estimated Pricing

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Crissa

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This whole line of thought about scalpers “Slowing sales” is nonsense though. Tesla is going to be producing trucks at a given rate. They are going to be delivering them at that rate. Straw buyers can’t slow this down. Scalpers don’t have the time or resources to do a Truck Denial Of Service Attack that slows truck deliveries. Most of this happens online and without human intervention. Having someone clogging up phone lines won’t change my delivery date by a day.

Maybe when I show up to get my truck I have to wait 10 more minutes due to a no-show in front of me. Who cares.
Tesla has shown that this is more than ten minutes, tho. Wasted appointments, having to re-do final checks, leaving sales staff on the line helping people change things...

It can change their deliveries by up to ten percent. That's why there's a difference when they do a delivery push at all! Because there is a finite amount of do that can happen and it can be used up.

Either way, we both agree upon the solution, so we're just arguing about the amount that scalpers screw with the numbers.

-Crissa

PS, I do not think the Cybertruck will be priced against the Lightning, but the ICE version.
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Deleted member 3316

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...Because your plans seem to include Tesla raising the price on early reservation holders? Or making us wait while they fulfill orders from people who'll pay whatever?

-Crissa
Great, we have identified the misunderstanding.

My suggestion of a different market strategy is exactly the opposite of what you have written here.
 

Ogre

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It can change their deliveries by up to ten percent. That's why there's a difference when they do a delivery push at all! Because there is a finite amount of do that can happen and it can be used up.
This is where I don’t get it.

Are you saying there will be 5,000 trucks sitting in a lot by the time it gets to the 50,000th delivery?

Not trying to drag out this already trodden argument, it this seems exceedingly unlikely and like the sort of situation which Tesla senior management would get actively involved in squashing fast.
 

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Here’s the thing which makes most of this whole scalping debate silly. I’ve goofed on this before too.

Most scalpers aren’t going to buy trucks. There may be some buyers who do flip their used trucks, but the scalpers are going to be buying and selling reservations. Since the reservations aren’t transferrable, it’ll most likely entire Tesla accounts with Cybertruck reservations in them.
This is something new to me. Thanks.
I hadn’t considered people selling the password to their Tesla account. But that would also mean they would need to change the email address on their account, or sell that email account also, which implies some forethought and intent to rort the system at the start, which you’ve said is a tiny proportion of the list.

Is there anything in here that you disagree with?
 

Deleted member 3316

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...Because your plans seem to include Tesla raising the price on early reservation holders? Or making us wait while they fulfill orders from people who'll pay whatever?

-Crissa
It will discourage profiteering from the speculators. You want the truck, buy it /drive it /enjoy it. Situation changes? Sell it for a full refund to Tesla if they want it or on the secondary market if they do not. Your early reservation has no value other than that you get to buy the truck earlier.
This ⬆ is why I dont understand your vehement opposition.

Tesla has been known to sell vehicles on the used market at a higher price than the new.

Because they sell them at market price.

And the Right of First Refusal has a pretty strong contract precedent.
And again here.
 


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As there is quite clearly misunderstanding in much of what I have been attempting to suggest.
Here is a small summary. (Ogre don’t get caught up on the numbers it’s not important, but they are there for you specifically)

New market strategy just for Cybertruck.

For the first 4 years of production (1million ish vehicles),
Sell only to reservation holders at reasonable (read low) MSRP with a 18month-2year resale covenant of some description,

AND

Sell a small proportion with no resale restriction to all comers, equal to the estimated scalping/flipper rate (~10%) at open auction in each sales territory. A slight augment to this could be to have a higher proportion (60% of the ~10%) be open only to reservation holders and delivery wave excess (or 40% of the ~10%) at an in person all comer auction.
Lowest price for reservation holders, maintains integrity of the reservation system by acknowledging scalpers/flippers/parasitic profiteers exist and the customers , retains significant profits to Tesla, incentivises Tesla to ramp supply quickly as they would be competing against the secondhand market after 18months - 2 years.

Within the resale restriction or lease a profit sharing agreement could be included at the end of the term, similar to fleet arrangements.
 
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As there is quite clearly misunderstanding in much of what I have been attempting to suggest.
Here is a small summary. (Ogre don’t get caught up on the numbers it’s not important, but they are there for you specifically)



Lowest price for reservation holders, maintains integrity of the reservation system by acknowledging scalpers/flippers/parasitic profiteers exist, retains significant profits to Tesla, incentivises Tesla to ramp supply quickly as they would be competing against the secondhand market after 18months - 2 years.

Within the resale restriction or lease a profit sharing agreement could be included at the end of the term, similar to fleet arrangements.
Over time Tesla could adjust MSRP to the auction price so that the auctions are mere to move delivery wave inventory.
 

Crissa

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This is where I don’t get it.

Are you saying there will be 5,000 trucks sitting in a lot by the time it gets to the 50,000th delivery?

Not trying to drag out this already trodden argument, it this seems exceedingly unlikely and like the sort of situation which Tesla senior management would get actively involved in squashing fast.
Their stock on hand does rise, and then they do get more involved.

It hasn't happened since Model 3, but it could happen again. They ended up with cars stuffed in lots all over, and then liquidated them as 'stock on hand' at lower than msrp prices.

-Crissa
 

scoobysteve0

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How do you come to that figure? I think there’s a significant proportion of the market that would pay more.
Agree 100%, but if we go by what Elon said (I'm sure there's more to it than that), he wants to move us into sustainable energy. You're not doing that for a truck that costs more than the regular population can pay, but you are if you stay close to their original number.
I may be getting this wrong, but Henry Ford did not make history by making expensive cars. He made history by bringing cars to the people at an "affordable price."
 

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The whole idea of allowing line jumping for a price by Tesla is flawed. This would alienate those of us in line. It would also consume deliveries that would slow the movement down the line. I am in the mid 400k so I am still looking at 18-24 months. If this would make my deliver more like 3 years then I'll have to buy something else.
 


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Agree 100%, but if we go by what Elon said (I'm sure there's more to it than that), he wants to move us into sustainable energy. You're not doing that for a truck that costs more than the regular population can pay, but you are if you stay close to their original number.
I may be getting this wrong, but Henry Ford did not make history by making expensive cars. He made history by bringing cars to the people at an "affordable price."
The fundamental difference in your analogy is supply and demand… The Model T had evolving demand based on word of mouth and the beginnings of the dealership network.

This is not the same situation you cannot apply the same logic.
 

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The whole idea of allowing line jumping for a price by Tesla is flawed. This would alienate those of us in line. It would also consume deliveries that would slow the movement down the line. I am in the mid 400k so I am still looking at 18-24 months. If this would make my deliver more like 3 years then I'll have to buy something else.
People are already jumping the line.

It would make no difference to your place sequentially.
 

SparkChaser

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People are already jumping the line.

It would make no difference to your place sequentially.
SO if there are 100 orders, and only 100 trucks produced and they action 20, that means the 20 people that ordered them what happens?
Same if time is involved.. anything they take out of filling the back log (of 2 million orders now?), delays delivery to those orders.
I would make a huge difference if it was done by Tesla and it would be a huge difference if those of us with a later delivery have to wait even longer.
While I agree that those with enough cash can usually buy anything. So no way to stop it n the end. But having Tesla do it would break trust with the community that has been most engaged and supportive of this venture.
 

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SO if there are 100 orders, and only 100 trucks produced and they action 20, that means the 20 people that ordered them what happens?
Same if time is involved.. anything they take out of filling the back log (of 2 million orders now?), delays delivery to those orders.
I would make a huge difference if it was done by Tesla and it would be a huge difference if those of us with a later delivery have to wait even longer.
While I agree that those with enough cash can usually buy anything. So no way to stop it n the end. But having Tesla do it would break trust with the community that has been most engaged and supportive of this venture.
So it’s the appearance that you’re being “cheated” not the fact your getting “cheated” either way you have issue with?

There is no breaking of trust….IF it is open, honest, and logical. Any hurt feelings are are born from misunderstanding objective reality and an existential rage at the capitalist system.

You are also missing the major tool Tesla currently uses to limit scalping/flipping/parasitic profiteering. It’s not cancelling orders.

Everyone together now…

They increase……

Come on….

You can get there…
 
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