Range degradation and battery issues minmal, less than expected

S.H.Peterson

Well-known member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Mar 23, 2023
Threads
11
Messages
270
Reaction score
452
Location
Alabama
Vehicles
Currently Dodge Truck owner
Occupation
Insurance
Country flag
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Used-...-battery-health-issues-are-rare.704043.0.html


QUOTE FROM ARTICLE:

"Most electric cars lose less than 20 miles of range on a charge by the time they hit the typical 100,000 miles warranty mark, according to a new study of long-term battery health. This non-linear battery degradation and the fact that non-recall replacements are only 1.5% demonstrate that fears to buy a used electric car may be unfounded."
Daniel Zlatev, Published 03/29/2023 🇫🇷 🇪🇸 ...
E-Mobility


SO, this may alleviate some concerns as range degradation / battery issues over time. It fully looks to me that the CT with newer battery tech could easily be a viable 20 year vehicle.
Sponsored

 

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
Admitting I haven’t read the article yet, I’ll be interested to know the assumptions here - and whether people relying on the conclusion will understand those assumptions.

People familiar with the nuances of BEV battery maintenance know that their use behaviors can materially impact the degree of battery degradation. (Not to suggest there aren’t analogous themes in ICE vehicles.)

So in over-simplistic terms? My curiosity about this studies assumptions can be cartoon-ized across the following range:

(1) “… assuming owners observe the most conservative best practices for preventing battery degradation”

VS.

(2) “… regardless of whether owners YOLO their batteries, ride hard and put away wet”

Which boils down to less of an issue of battery qualities, and more an issue of owner education.
 
OP
OP
S.H.Peterson

S.H.Peterson

Well-known member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Mar 23, 2023
Threads
11
Messages
270
Reaction score
452
Location
Alabama
Vehicles
Currently Dodge Truck owner
Occupation
Insurance
Country flag
Its actually simpler than that.
A warranty is essentially an insurance policy.
I mange several states handling warranty claims.
That is whay my profile reads insurance as my occupation.

This article is as real world as it gets.
Simply they surveyed Ev resellers, and looked at warranty claims, and service tickets then aggrgated the data.
 

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
67
Messages
5,819
Reaction score
19,102
Location
Austin, TX
Website
www.timeanddate.com
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2024 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag
There are MANY threads on TMC about battery longevity and degradation. Thanks to many people using software like TeslaFi, there's a large sample of data on real-world usage.

The bottom line:
  • Most degradation occurs early on, tapering off over time
  • The BMC won't let you hurt your battery (unless you try really really hard lol)
  • There's only modest difference across usage behaviors, so enjoy without worry
  • Best practices vary with battery chemistry

For the Cybertruck's likely nickel-based cells, charge to 80% regularly unless you need it, and then drive immediately when charging above 90%.
 


cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
This article is as real world as it gets.
Simply they surveyed Ev resellers, and looked at warranty claims, and service tickets then aggrgated the data.
I know less about Tesla, but I’m still left generally uncertain regarding how this is policed by owners?


The average consumer in a Ford, for examples knows nothing about its battery degradation that isn’t defined by and provided through Ford - which presently is next to nothing.

Ford could tomorrow tell me that my battery degradation is outside warranty, and I’d have to shrug.


The bottom line:
  • Most degradation occurs early on, tapering off over time
  • The BMC won't let you hurt your battery (unless you try really really hard lol)
  • There's only modest difference across usage behaviors, so enjoy without worry
  • Best practices vary with battery chemistry
this all may well be true, and I take no position on it as I’m relatively ignorant

but I’ll say that, countering these points, on *another* forum I’m on there’s a member who works at an independent lab that simulates these things for many manufacturers. And they do so with physical, chem, analysis, rather than indirect software that (in some cases) assumes the underlying software data is correct.

he wouldn’t agree with most of the points above.

which combined with your post, just leaves me only with an example of how I walk away feeling less than sure of anything
 
OP
OP
S.H.Peterson

S.H.Peterson

Well-known member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Mar 23, 2023
Threads
11
Messages
270
Reaction score
452
Location
Alabama
Vehicles
Currently Dodge Truck owner
Occupation
Insurance
Country flag
I know less about Tesla, but I’m still left generally uncertain regarding how this is policed by owners?

Owners fill out quality of ownership experience and service experience surveys. A lot to be gleaned from this

The average consumer in a Ford, for examples knows nothing about its battery degradation that isn’t defined by and provided through Ford - which presently is next to nothing.

This is true. However, the great majority of the data comes from repair shops, used vehicle dealers, battery recyclers, warranty fulfillment documentation, and gathered information from Tesla itself


this all may well be true, and I take no position on it as I’m relatively ignorant

No sin in that.

but I’ll say that, countering these points, on *another* forum I’m on there’s a member who works at an independent lab that simulates these things for many manufacturers. And they do so with physical, chem, analysis, rather than indirect software that (in some cases) assumes the underlying software data is correct.
he wouldn’t agree with most of the points above.

It is highly likely he would not. The numbers reported are from real world actual use vehilcles. Vehicels that have had genuine environemental expsoure in all of its gruesome ways. Not Labs. Labs are controlled and sterile. The real world is weird and somewaht unpredictable. BOTH data sets are important. Labs are predictive to an extent and real world is empirical but subject to influence.

which combined with your post, just leaves me only with an example of how I walk away feeling less than sure of anything

Im never SURE of anything related to humans and their endeavors. I, like you, am stuck with making the best educated guess I can with the data at hand.
 

ED_SFO

Well-known member
First Name
Ed
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Threads
7
Messages
458
Reaction score
839
Location
Sfo
Vehicles
M3
Country flag
I have a model y performance 2022 and have 18k miles. Was rated at 303 but now my car says 285 at 100%. Will see if I keep it til 50k miles...CT delivery will be the main factor
 

BillyGee

Well-known member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
708
Reaction score
1,534
Location
Northern California
Vehicles
Model Y P, Model 3 LR, Founders CT (Ordered)
Occupation
Technician
Country flag
Neat article, hopefully you're all right about public sentiments getting better.

For what it's worth, here's my model Y at 63,000 miles from Tessie. To be completely honest, the drop in rated range hasn't even been noticeable for day to day use. The car charges so fast that it doesn't bother me.

Tesla Cybertruck Range degradation  and battery issues minmal, less than expected Screenshot_20230419_140937
 

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
67
Messages
5,819
Reaction score
19,102
Location
Austin, TX
Website
www.timeanddate.com
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2024 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag


BayouCityBob

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2022
Threads
21
Messages
440
Reaction score
1,425
Location
Texas
Vehicles
2018 Model 3
Country flag
Neat article, hopefully you're all right about public sentiments getting better.

For what it's worth, here's my model Y at 63,000 miles from Tessie. To be completely honest, the drop in rated range hasn't even been noticeable for day to day use. The car charges so fast that it doesn't bother me.
Holy cow that is a lot of range loss! My early 2018 Model 3 is still at 290 (out of 310). Moral of the story: buy the most range you can afford.
 

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
67
Messages
5,819
Reaction score
19,102
Location
Austin, TX
Website
www.timeanddate.com
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2024 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag
Holy cow that is a lot of range loss! My early 2018 Model 3 is still at 290 (out of 310). Moral of the story: buy the most range you can afford.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have enough range.
 

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
Curious: given the relative
I can promise you'll have less than 30% degradation over 8 years, because you'll get a new pack under warranty if you do!
Doesn’t leave me fully confident!

My Lightning was one of the 100 or so units that had a module issue, requiring the pack to be disassembled, a new module installed, etc.

On one hand, it was encouraging that Ford was remotely monitoring the battery, reached out, bent over backwards, and for my troubles gave me free 3 year Ford protect premium service plan with $0 deductible.

On the other hand, I’d only ever know the problem existed if Ford let me know.

And in any event, as far as degradation in general, I’m still not left terribly confident that any one source of info is satisfactory. Your link is compelling. But so too is a guy who spends all day brutalizing these batteries for a living and who says he’d never X, Y, Z, or that they’ll last almost indefinitely if instead you A, B, C.

*shrug*

How many packs exist that are 8yrs-10yrs old? Of each battery type?
 

BillyGee

Well-known member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
708
Reaction score
1,534
Location
Northern California
Vehicles
Model Y P, Model 3 LR, Founders CT (Ordered)
Occupation
Technician
Country flag
Holy cow that is a lot of range loss! My early 2018 Model 3 is still at 290 (out of 310). Moral of the story: buy the most range you can afford.
How many miles do you have on it? I'm at 63k currently and just put new tires on.

I got the performance model, but I always run it in chill mode. I've found the numbers are always a little finicky on a per mile basis, but I average 141 miles per day during the busy season of work.

Regardless, I'm springing for top end trim for the king dorito. 500+ mile range sounds divine, especially after the last 2 days where I did 800 miles round trip.
Sponsored

 
 




Top