Rich Rebuilds for $700 in lieu of Teslas quoted $16000

[anionic1]

It seems like this story is all over the news this last week. A guy broke a coolant adapter coming out of the battery on a model 3 and a Telsa vendor quoted to replace the whole battery because the adapter wasn't replaceable per Tesla. So the guy took it to Rich Rebuilds and they basically cut off the adapter and put a threaded plumbing coupler in between the broken parts.

So I do a lot of work on my ICE cars and this is definitely something I could see myself doing if needed on an ICE vehicle however its very likely that I could have found the part online for $25 and not needed to rig it up like they did on the model 3. I can see both sides in that yes its crazy to toss a whole battery because some poorly designed port/adapter and $16000 for this fix is completely unjustifiable and really just wrong. But I can also see Tesla's point of view that this vehicle needs all systems to stay within the design parameters so they feel comfortable that they are keeping the owners safe and not putting them at risk of fires or system failures. But really this resulted from a poor design. A fitting in a sensitive area like that should have better protection.

Being more on the end of the DIY spectrum that likes to tackle repairs myself and learn about my vehicles, I am really curious what the Tesla's will be like to work on. I hear that they don't need a lot of maintenance, which is great, but they will need some I am sure. Does anyone have any input on working on a Tesla? Can you even get manufacturer parts yourself or will they only sell to their vendors? Is the engineering fairly repair conscious as in are all the bolts on the under body cover the same, are the brakes easy to change or is there some stupid locking screw that you need a special screwdriver to loosen (like the Honda brakes). If there are filters or refill caps for the coolant fluids or HVAC are they easy to get to. I hear that some of their vehicles have a 12V battery and that sometimes that one is unreasonably hard to get to. I know these are a lot of questions and a long post, but in general I am just looking to get a feel for peoples experience doing any DIY work on their Teslas. Do you feel like anything you touch could screw up a $16000 part or fry your $10000 central computer system.

I want my kids to grow up with a general understanding and capability regarding the mechanics of the vehicles they own. My hunch is that with EVs we are actually taking a step toward vehicles with so much technical sophistication that they are not easily repaired with basic understanding of mechanics. Granted EVs components last a lot longer with less moving parts. With any of our ICE cars I would feel confident that I could be half way across the country and probably fix any basic issues that came up myself, but with EVs I feel like any issue that may come up likely if more software/technical than mechanical and I don't really like that aspect of EVs, but maybe its just because I don't own one yet.

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[Newton]

head over to rockauto website and look up teslas, you can see some parts for sale, basically suspension , brakes, rod ends, etc. but lacking most everything else compared to a same year of nearly any other brand. Of course theres ebay to find parts.
I havnt heard of teslas using proprietary tools, like say BMW.
but I expect for multiple reasons Teslas will be hard to work on, as a normal person, for a very very long time.

 

[anionic1]

head over to rockauto website and look up teslas, you can see some parts for sale, basically suspension , brakes, rod ends, etc. but lacking most everything else compared to a same year of nearly any other brand. Of course theres ebay to find parts.
I havnt heard of teslas using proprietary tools, like say BMW.
but I expect for multiple reasons Teslas will be hard to work on, as a normal person, for a very very long time.

RockAuto is awesome. For some reason I didn't even think to look there. I hope great resources like RockAuto survive this transition to EVs. Thanks,

 

[Crissa]

EVs are actually much simpler to work on than ICE cars. Fewer components, fewer edge cases, fewer tools.

The problem comes that optimized and smart components are going to be kind of black boxes. There's no reason for that; it's just that we haven't demanded that companies be up front with their designs.

For instance, we wouldn't have had the Toyota unintended accelleration problem had they not hidden what they were doing on their engine computers. But that was an ICE! That has nothing to do with ICE vs EV.

-Crissa

 

[rr6013]

It seems like this story is all over the news this last week. A guy broke a coolant adapter coming out of the battery on a model 3 and a Telsa vendor quoted to replace the whole battery because the adapter wasn't replaceable per Tesla. So the guy took it to Rich Rebuilds and they basically cut off the adapter and put a threaded plumbing coupler in between the broken parts.
<Snip>

Early Space days pre-NASA the story I’ve heard that local hdwe store pipe fittings were used to replace defects and launch rockets. Today SpaceX brought rocketry away from carbonfibre back to S.S. and simple, cheap rocket fuel.

Rich Rebuilds is our <proxy> DIY/RtR leader much in the vein as GruberMtrs approaches fixing Teslas from the electronics end DIY/RtR. Additive mfgr’g, desktop printers and computerized machinery are going to lower the bar going forward.

So much of Teslas unobtainium pricing right now, reflects lack of infrastructure, inventory and techs educated at a level to certify a repair going back out the door.

I’d expect Weber Tech/Gruber/Rich Builds establish a certification on BEV before Tesla. Tesla are building 3 Giga and plans for at least 3+ more and stopping the march isn’t likely for fitting repairs to battery packs.

Welcome early adopters!

 

[android04]

It seems like this story is all over the news this last week. A guy broke a coolant adapter coming out of the battery on a model 3 and a Telsa vendor quoted to replace the whole battery because the adapter wasn't replaceable per Tesla. So the guy took it to Rich Rebuilds and they basically cut off the adapter and put a threaded plumbing coupler in between the broken parts.

So I do a lot of work on my ICE cars and this is definitely something I could see myself doing if needed on an ICE vehicle however its very likely that I could have found the part online for $25 and not needed to rig it up like they did on the model 3. I can see both sides in that yes its crazy to toss a whole battery because some poorly designed port/adapter and $16000 for this fix is completely unjustifiable and really just wrong. But I can also see Tesla's point of view that this vehicle needs all systems to stay within the design parameters so they feel comfortable that they are keeping the owners safe and not putting them at risk of fires or system failures. But really this resulted from a poor design. A fitting in a sensitive area like that should have better protection.

Being more on the end of the DIY spectrum that likes to tackle repairs myself and learn about my vehicles, I am really curious what the Tesla's will be like to work on. I hear that they don't need a lot of maintenance, which is great, but they will need some I am sure. Does anyone have any input on working on a Tesla? Can you even get manufacturer parts yourself or will they only sell to their vendors? Is the engineering fairly repair conscious as in are all the bolts on the under body cover the same, are the brakes easy to change or is there some stupid locking screw that you need a special screwdriver to loosen (like the Honda brakes). If there are filters or refill caps for the coolant fluids or HVAC are they easy to get to. I hear that some of their vehicles have a 12V battery and that sometimes that one is unreasonably hard to get to. I know these are a lot of questions and a long post, but in general I am just looking to get a feel for peoples experience doing any DIY work on their Teslas. Do you feel like anything you touch could screw up a $16000 part or fry your $10000 central computer system.

I want my kids to grow up with a general understanding and capability regarding the mechanics of the vehicles they own. My hunch is that with EVs we are actually taking a step toward vehicles with so much technical sophistication that they are not easily repaired with basic understanding of mechanics. Granted EVs components last a lot longer with less moving parts. With any of our ICE cars I would feel confident that I could be half way across the country and probably fix any basic issues that came up myself, but with EVs I feel like any issue that may come up likely if more software/technical than mechanical and I don't really like that aspect of EVs, but maybe its just because I don't own one yet.

First of all, the old pack would not be junked by Tesla because it's perfectly functional. They would send it back to the factory to replace the coolant line and use it for warranty replacement on another car.

Here's are some reasons the service center couldn't just disconnect and lower the battery pack, open it up, and replaced the broken plastic coolant tube:
1. The pack is sealed and the top metal cover is glued in place. One has to use a tool to cut the adhesive all the way around the edge of the cover. This deforms the cover and a new one would have to be installed. If one accidentally cuts into our pokes the battery modules or high voltage electronics they could be hurt or killed.
2. Though replacing the whole pack is done in service centers, it's not as easy to do it on a Model 3/Y as on S/X because the newer cars were not designed to have quick swappable packs. So it takes longer to swap out the pack because more interior trim has to be removed to get at the bolts.
3. Although service center and mobile techs have PPE and training to work on high voltage components, Tesla does not want them working inside the battery packs. Each module weighs about 200 lbs and can electrocute the tech. Specialized equipment might be needed that takes up room and special training, but would be rarely used. There might be some liability concerns as well as safety concerns.
4. Tesla tends to keep things simple by consolidating parts into major groups. For example, the side mirror can only be purchased from them as the whole assembly. You can't buy just the mirror glass from them if that breaks and everything else is fine. They do that to simplify inventory management.

Not to say that I agree with Tesla's solution, but I understand why they chose it. I agree that Tesla should keep situations like this in mind when designing their battery packs in order to make the components more durable (especially as they move towards structural packs), or make it easier to service the internal components. But there's always the issue of adding cost, complexity, weight, and failure points for something that is expected to be extremely rare.

 

[JBee]

@anionic1

EV's like many ICE cars since the 90's have become increasingly automated via software and processor control. Expect the proportion of electronics and software related control to increase whilst the mechanical components and complexity decrease with EV design streamlining. So you'll need to pull your PC out of your toolset first (or your phone).

Like with OBDll to read fault codes on ICE cars EV's will primarily be diagnosed on the computer first, to the point that hardware failure causes would be limited to accidental damage (like the broken coolant nipple on the M3 battery pack) because the computer can derate and stop things prior to failure if it is managed by the system. The more that is managed or at least monitored, the less mechanical failures there will be to fix, as they will become apparent before they fail.

Meaning if the MTBF is designed right the MTTR should be limited, which in turn allows for system level replacements rather than component level, simply because they should occur less. In this case though it is clear there is a poor protective cover design that didn't protect against accidental damage, and the simple failure point did not require system replacement, just a new part.

As with any accidental damage, it's not always clear from the beginning what parts are exposed to damage risk, and how that best can be mitigated. But going forwards, and in the case of the CT battery with tabless 4680 structural packs, there might be no coolant intercell cooling at all, as the shortest cooling path is through the ends of the 4680 battery cylinder. It might even become a passive cooling system (without coolant), at least to some degree, but at the most the entire underside (topside?) of the structural pack will likely be the only cooling area it requires, which is a significant reduction in parts in comparison to other Tesla pack based on 18650/2170. Underside protection will also be sturdier on a CT that is meant for offroad.

I also expect the structural pack to allow for parts of the system to be isolated, so that the vehicle can continue to operate even with a partial pack.

 

[Quicksilver]

When I was at our local Community College working on my Machine Tool Technology degree I spent time at the welding and automotive classes.
I had just ordered my Cybertruck and several of my fellow students expressed interest in all aspects of EVs.
I asked the Automotive instructor if they had plans to incorporate EV's into the curriculum and he said it would depend on how much they would have to spend on equipment and if they could find a qualified teacher.
If I were a mechanically/electrically inclined young man I would be eyeing the budding EV repair market as a career path.
I remember all the old "shade tree mechanics" we had when I was growing up and I wonder if in 20 or 30 years we will have the same type people working on EVs.

 

[Cyberman]

head over to rockauto website and look up teslas, you can see some parts for sale, basically suspension , brakes, rod ends, etc. but lacking most everything else compared to a same year of nearly any other brand. Of course theres ebay to find parts.
I havnt heard of teslas using proprietary tools, like say BMW.
but I expect for multiple reasons Teslas will be hard to work on, as a normal person, for a very very long time.

I couldn't find a muffler or a catalytic converter for my Tesla on Rock Auto.

 

[Newton]

I couldn't find a muffler or a catalytic converter for my Tesla on Rock Auto.

it might be in the "stolen from a prius" section

 

[jerhenderson]

It seems like this story is all over the news this last week. A guy broke a coolant adapter coming out of the battery on a model 3 and a Telsa vendor quoted to replace the whole battery because the adapter wasn't replaceable per Tesla. So the guy took it to Rich Rebuilds and they basically cut off the adapter and put a threaded plumbing coupler in between the broken parts.

So I do a lot of work on my ICE cars and this is definitely something I could see myself doing if needed on an ICE vehicle however its very likely that I could have found the part online for $25 and not needed to rig it up like they did on the model 3. I can see both sides in that yes its crazy to toss a whole battery because some poorly designed port/adapter and $16000 for this fix is completely unjustifiable and really just wrong. But I can also see Tesla's point of view that this vehicle needs all systems to stay within the design parameters so they feel comfortable that they are keeping the owners safe and not putting them at risk of fires or system failures. But really this resulted from a poor design. A fitting in a sensitive area like that should have better protection.

Being more on the end of the DIY spectrum that likes to tackle repairs myself and learn about my vehicles, I am really curious what the Tesla's will be like to work on. I hear that they don't need a lot of maintenance, which is great, but they will need some I am sure. Does anyone have any input on working on a Tesla? Can you even get manufacturer parts yourself or will they only sell to their vendors? Is the engineering fairly repair conscious as in are all the bolts on the under body cover the same, are the brakes easy to change or is there some stupid locking screw that you need a special screwdriver to loosen (like the Honda brakes). If there are filters or refill caps for the coolant fluids or HVAC are they easy to get to. I hear that some of their vehicles have a 12V battery and that sometimes that one is unreasonably hard to get to. I know these are a lot of questions and a long post, but in general I am just looking to get a feel for peoples experience doing any DIY work on their Teslas. Do you feel like anything you touch could screw up a $16000 part or fry your $10000 central computer system.

I want my kids to grow up with a general understanding and capability regarding the mechanics of the vehicles they own. My hunch is that with EVs we are actually taking a step toward vehicles with so much technical sophistication that they are not easily repaired with basic understanding of mechanics. Granted EVs components last a lot longer with less moving parts. With any of our ICE cars I would feel confident that I could be half way across the country and probably fix any basic issues that came up myself, but with EVs I feel like any issue that may come up likely if more software/technical than mechanical and I don't really like that aspect of EVs, but maybe its just because I don't own one yet.

chances are you can't fix your broken flat-screen either, so who cares? technology is getting beyond the garage mechanic.

 

[anionic1]

it might be in the "stolen from a prius" section

If you just buy a Cadillac emblem and stick it in the hood you might have found a Cadillac converter

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