Should FSD Be One or Multiple Option?

Julien

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Hey there!

Lets get strait to it... FSD is too expensive. It may be worth 10k but a lot of people don't want to wheel out the much money for features they won't use. For me, I want only some of the features. The standard Autopilot is more than enough for me, so I don't need the full suite of lane changing, turning on streets, etc... I would only need some of them like the Autopark and Summon (once they start working reliably) to get in and out of tight parking spots whereI live. Plus, there's been rumors that a 360 degree camera is coming but ONLY for FSD (which is stupid) so I would want that.

I think Tesla should split up the features as separate options. For example, actual FSD should be 5k, Autopark = 1K, Summon = 1k, etc.

Anybody agree or do you think bundling the options makes more sense?
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Hey there!

Lets get strait to it... FSD is too expensive. It may be worth 10k but a lot of people don't want to wheel out the much money for features they won't use. For me, I want only some of the features. The standard Autopilot is more than enough for me, so I don't need the full suite of lane changing, turning on streets, etc... I would only need some of them like the Autopark and Summon (once they start working reliably) to get in and out of tight parking spots whereI live. Plus, there's been rumors that a 360 degree camera is coming but ONLY for FSD (which is stupid) so I would want that.

I think Tesla should split up the features as separate options. For example, actual FSD should be 5k, Autopark = 1K, Summon = 1k, etc.

Anybody agree or do you think bundling the options makes more sense?
They are already split up to some extent. AP, EAP, FSD. Tesla may very well split them out further in the future. There is a very real problem with the cost of FSD though. If Tesla was able to sell FSD for $XXX 5 years ago, why do they keep increasing the price? Because it is actually getting closer to doing what it was advertised to do in the first place? Does that mean that Tesla was selling something, intentionally, that they knew could not be used in the context it was sold in? That would be very bad. Second, if Tesla really wants to have all cars be autonomous, shouldn’t the price of FSD drop as more people buy it, rather than going up? And now they are removing radar from vehicles so even the hardware cost is going down. Third, at $7K FSD was pretty much at the price ceiling for me. I never expected/dreamed I might someday be able to afford a Tesla but now I have a reservation for a tri-motor CT. I wonder every day whether I can make do with a Model Y, so adding another $NK for FSD started interfering with my dream, which is a vehicle made with stainless steel that can stand up to dings, get over 400 real miles per charge, and can easily store dogs, sporting equipment, and building materials. Do I value the idea of FSD? Yes, I do. I believe in it, too. As I age I do not want to give up my mobility and I see FSD as a hedge against this. But everyone has a limit and by increasing the price of FSD I can’t help but think that Tesla is creating the opposite of what they claim is important or, rather, they intend for their robotaxi service to be the only vehicles with FSD and the rest of us with only AP will simply have to be happy with that. Your question gets to the heart of this dilemma. The price of something is, to a very real extent, inversely proportional to how many can afford to purchase it. It is not a democratizing strategy. Will Tesla break up the features of FSD to suit different populations? Likely. Will this really reduce the price? I am not sure. If Tesla wants people using this capability they have to price it lower as adoption increases. It isn’t about what it is valued at, because saving lives is an incalculable value. You either want to change the world for the better or you don’t. These pricing policies force us to question their motives.
 

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Hey there!

Lets get strait to it... FSD is too expensive. It may be worth 10k but a lot of people don't want to wheel out the much money for features they won't use. For me, I want only some of the features. The standard Autopilot is more than enough for me, so I don't need the full suite of lane changing, turning on streets, etc... I would only need some of them like the Autopark and Summon (once they start working reliably) to get in and out of tight parking spots whereI live. Plus, there's been rumors that a 360 degree camera is coming but ONLY for FSD (which is stupid) so I would want that.

I think Tesla should split up the features as separate options. For example, actual FSD should be 5k, Autopark = 1K, Summon = 1k, etc.

Anybody agree or do you think bundling the options makes more sense?
Tesla invested the money to develop the technology so they can use whatever strategy they think is the best way to get a return on that investment.

In general, when someone complains a product is "too expensive" I generally tell them they must not be the target market and not to buy it. Problem solved! But 10K seems cheap to me compared to the $90K+ you have to pay to get an F-150 Platinum with 300 miles of range (and no FSD).

The Tri-Motor Cybertruck with FSD is still $10K cheaper than the F-150 Lightning with only 300 miles of range (vs. 500+ miles of the CT), no FSD, only a 5 1/2 foot "shorty" bed and lower tow and payload ratings, a non-adjustable suspension and no bed cover or on-board compressed air. I think Tesla can charge that much for FSD because their vehicles compare so favorably price wise even if you add on another $10K.
 
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Julien

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Tesla invested the money to develop the technology so they can use whatever strategy they think is the best way to get a return on that investment.

In general, when someone complains a product is "too expensive" I generally tell them they must not be the target market and not to buy it. Problem solved! But 10K seems cheap to me compared to the $90K+ you have to pay to get an F-150 Platinum with 300 miles of range (and no FSD).

The Tri-Motor Cybertruck with FSD is still $10K cheaper than the F-150 Lightning with only 300 miles of range (vs. 500+ miles of the CT), no FSD, only a 5 1/2 foot "shorty" bed and lower tow and payload ratings, a non-adjustable suspension and no bed cover or on-board compressed air. I think Tesla can charge that much for FSD because their vehicles compare so favorably price wise even if you add on another $10K.
I don't think that 10k is unreasonable, but I think that splitting the options would allow more people to spring for at least some of the options. If someone wants all of the features, then they can pay 10k for all of the options.
 

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Surely you don’t think it will stay at $10K. Elon thinks FSD is worth $100K, so the price will go up. The question is, you think it is worth $10K but what is your threshold? And when people stop buying it the notion of Tesla ushering in an era of self driving cars for everyone will be over. I hate to be a pessimist but I really wonder what game they are playing.
 


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Surely you don’t think it will stay at $10K. Elon thinks FSD is worth $100K, so the price will go up. The question is, you think it is worth $10K but what is your threshold? And when people stop buying it the notion of Tesla ushering in an era of self driving cars for everyone will be over. I hate to be a pessimist but I really wonder what game they are playing.
So for another thought on the price of full self driving you can hear what George Hotz says about it. He is the CEO of Comma AI. Here is a quote from the interview on Now You Know:

Zac: So when someone finally "wins" this game of full self driving, let's say its Tesla, is it the kind of thing that other players will be able to reverse engineer and come up with a couple years later? Or is it the kind of thing that once someone wins it, it's really hard to figure out?

George: Part of the beauty of us being open source, is luck. Again, maybe I don't play capitalism right. I like making money, but I also like the idea of just obliterating billions of dollars of value. All these people who think they are going to solve self-driving cars and then rent-seek, LOSERS!! I'm going to solve it and give it away for free. And then there will be no access to compete with us. So you ask, is it something someone can reverse engineer and figure out? They don't have to. They can just download openpilot. It's free.
I've cued up the quote for you here.

 
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datechboss101

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Hey there!

Lets get strait to it... FSD is too expensive. It may be worth 10k but a lot of people don't want to wheel out the much money for features they won't use. For me, I want only some of the features. The standard Autopilot is more than enough for me, so I don't need the full suite of lane changing, turning on streets, etc... I would only need some of them like the Autopark and Summon (once they start working reliably) to get in and out of tight parking spots whereI live. Plus, there's been rumors that a 360 degree camera is coming but ONLY for FSD (which is stupid) so I would want that.

I think Tesla should split up the features as separate options. For example, actual FSD should be 5k, Autopark = 1K, Summon = 1k, etc.

Anybody agree or do you think bundling the options makes more sense?
WAIT... A 360 degree camera isn't available on TESLAS at all???????????? And its part of that $10k option? WTF ELON! Almost every automaker has this feature, including in their common brands (except Honda, but they kinda stuck-up which I hate about Honda).

My parents pos deathbox that we paid less than $25k brand new has this feature. Heck, 3 of our vehicles has this feature. If we get a higher trim package on my current car, I would have gotten it.

I honestly thought that the 360 camera would be included in that arms and legs price of a vehicle, but what the heck. Now, ONLY had I wish Tesla can negotiate on them prices.
 

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I totally agree with Todd. His idea is a pay for what you use, approach.

 

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360 views are just not common on cars. It is a feature some have - Ford has it on some of their more expensive ones - but it's still not common.

Tesla now has this feed for their AI, so seeing it on the dash is probably just an update away.

Also, Tesla sells the alacarte AI packages as add-ons once you've registered the car.

-Crissa
 

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So for another thought on the price of full self driving you can hear what George Hotz says about it. He is the CEO of Comma AI. Here is a quote from the interview on Now You Know:



I've cued up the quote for you here.

I saw that interview and stopped watching after about half of it. He isn’t doing hardly any labeling and so it is questionable how he is doing learning. If you don’t label how can you do reinforcement learning? You could bootstrap with deep learning but it would take an eon. He has a very small number of adopters so it will take him a very long time to produce a viable model. And he is using a cell phone for a camera, a single camera. I am not betting on him to win any races.

George Hotz and the good guys at Now You Know aside, we were talking about Tesla and the price of FSD. I think Elon Musk should price FSD so that everyone that buys a Tesla will want it, or just bake it into the price of the cars and give it to everyone. They baked the cameras, sensors, and controls into the price of their cars so why not? Anything else and you have to wonder about his motives and intentions. Sure,, you have to find a way to deal with all the people that have already paid for FSD, or decided not to, but the longer it goes on the worse the problem will be.
 


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So for another thought on the price of full self driving you can hear what George Hotz says about it. He is the CEO of Comma AI. Here is a quote from the interview on Now You Know:



I've cued up the quote for you here.
So George wants to develop his version of FSD and then ruin the value of Tesla's FSD. O.K. Here's the problem:

If Tesla gets there first (and they will) they will not stop developing it, it will keep getting better and better. Georges version might get better than a human but if it's not safer and more consistent than Tesla's FSD, that's a problem. Remember, these are going to be cars driving themselves. If an Automaker choses a system that has a statistically lower level of safety than another viable alternative, just to save a few bucks, well, any death that happens on that system is a big problem! Every automaker knows how a court would view choosing a less safe system just to save some money and it ain't pretty!
 

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WAIT... A 360 degree camera isn't available on TESLAS at all???????????? And its part of that $10k option? WTF ELON! Almost every automaker has this feature, including in their common brands (except Honda, but they kinda stuck-up which I hate about Honda).

My parents pos deathbox that we paid less than $25k brand new has this feature. Heck, 3 of our vehicles has this feature. If we get a higher trim package on my current car, I would have gotten it.

I honestly thought that the 360 camera would be included in that arms and legs price of a vehicle, but what the heck. Now, ONLY had I wish Tesla can negotiate on them prices.
There is no evidence Tesla would disable a 360 degree camera unless the owner paid for FSD. It could very well be distributed absolutely free of charge to all owners like so many features Tesla has added to customer's car for absolutely no extra charge.

The problem here is you are treating an unsubstantiated rumor as a fact and then becoming upset about it.
 

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The problem here is you are treating an unsubstantiated rumor as a fact and then becoming upset about it.
I'm just shocked and surprised that when paying (arms + legs)^2 for a nice vehicle (mind you, a fully loaded luxury vehicle), and with technologies found in $20k econoboxes, I expect it to find it in a Tesla. But if rumor is true, then this is Tesla drinking most of its owner's financial resources dry.

This feature is really helpful especially for our aging population. And if the government is pushing for EV and electrification, then, obviously this needs to be standard, not as an $10k-$20k option/add-on.
 

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WAIT... A 360 degree camera isn't available on TESLAS at all???????????? And its part of that $10k option? WTF ELON! Almost every automaker has this feature, including in their common brands (except Honda, but they kinda stuck-up which I hate about Honda).

My parents pos deathbox that we paid less than $25k brand new has this feature. Heck, 3 of our vehicles has this feature. If we get a higher trim package on my current car, I would have gotten it.

I honestly thought that the 360 camera would be included in that arms and legs price of a vehicle, but what the heck. Now, ONLY had I wish Tesla can negotiate on them prices.
Tesla has announced a birds eye view coming that is a merge of its various cameras, so no extra hardware is needed. I think it would be neat to have a birds eye view in some circumstances but I don’t need more distractions when I am driving. Did you have a cite for this rumor by any chance?
 

HaulingAss

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I'm just shocked and surprised that when paying (arms + legs)^2 for a nice vehicle (mind you, a fully loaded luxury vehicle), and with technologies found in $20k econoboxes, I expect it to find it in a Tesla. But if rumor is true, then this is Tesla drinking most of its owner's financial resources dry.
Huh? Tesla includes their Autopilot Driver Assistance Suite with every car, free of charge. Most car makers charge a lot of money for a decidedly inferior suite of driver assistance technologies.

Why would you even repeat an unsubstantiated rumor? Anyone can make up a rumor. Here's one I just made up:

I heard Ford was going to charge extra for the bed on their new F-150 Lightning unless you get the $92K 300 mile range model. The 230 mile range Models will come only with a cab and a bare frame behind unless you pay an extra $10K for the "cargo bed".

;)
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