Tesla Range Question

[CappyJax]

I see many companies using different speeds for range estimates. Those of you who own Teslas, what is the speed that gives you the advertised range? Does the vehicle change the expected distance remaining based on your speed? For example, if you are doing 70MPH, and you slow to 55MPH, does the vehicle instantly tell you what your remaining distance will be at the lower speed? If you have a destination set in the navigation system, will it also figure out expected usage based on climbs and descents?

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[Crissa]

Range calculations are difficult.

They have to take into account terrain and driving style that the car has yet encountered - so usually it measures it off of driving that has already occurred. So if you were driving 70, it would assume you would do so again.

This is no different than any ICE car.

Though, since you can coast and regen for a long distance down a hill, electrics can get pretty confused sometimes and give insane ranges.

I think Teslas have more than one range calculation - the one on the map can (but doesn't usually) take into account terrain and speed limits.

-Crissa

 

[android04]

Teslas have an energy monitor that will show you your energy usage on a graph and will estimate your remaining range based on either your average consumption over the last 30 miles, or your instantaneous consumption at that moment. It will also show you the estimated range based on your route in the same energy monitoring screen. These can differ from the range display that most people look at either in miles or percent.

 

[ajdelange]

Teslas have an energy monitor that will show you your energy usage on a graph and will estimate your remaining range based on either your average consumption over the last 30 miles, or your instantaneous consumption at that moment. It will also show you the estimated range based on your route in the same energy monitoring screen.

Minor point: its range estimate can also be based on the past 5 or 15 miles of history.

Major point: You didn't mention what is, IMO, the most valuable display in the car. Also in the Energy monitoring tab it is the display that, when a destination is lain into the Nav system shows a curve of SoC vs. range with the estimated SoC at destination specially demarcated. This curve is based on the rated consumption for your vehicle but it is not a straight line as it also uses terrain elevation along your route. This it knows and it also knows whether you are driving on freeway or not but it cannot know whether you will drive faster or slower than normal or whether you will have head or tailwinds or wet road surface. The really useful part comes in when you start to drive. A second curve appears which shows the actual SoC vs actual miles up to where you are at the moment and a projection from your current location to your destination. Thus you know, at every step of the way, whether you are doing better than or worse than the original estimate and can modulate you charging plans to account for this and do it on the fly.

These can differ from the range display that most people look at either in miles or percent.

If you set your battery gauge to read in miles then it is, I believe, based on SoC and rated miles. This is one of the reasons I recommend that people set their gauge to SoC %. Among other things it is more like the fuel gauge on an ICE car and that makes it easy to interpret. As you did with your ICE cars you should learn how far you can go on a percent SoC under various driving conditions (though in an ICE car we probably thought of it in terms of how far we could go on a 1/4 tank and recognized that we could go lots farther on the first quarter than the last). This takes some experience, obviously, but once you know that you can normally go 3.5 miles on a percent but that it is only 3 in heavy rain it is easy to estimate how far you can go on 43% battery.

 

[CappyJax]

But if the EPA says this model has 300 miles of range, what speed is that based on? 55? 65? 70?

 

[android04]

But if the EPA says this model has 300 miles of range, what speed is that based on? 55? 65? 70?

Here's a table that shows range vs speed for various trims and wheels https://teslike.com/

 

[CappyJax]

Here's a table that shows range vs speed for various trims and wheels https://teslike.com/

That is a great resource! Thank you!

 

[ajdelange]

Everyone looking at such a table has to understand that those numbers are gross estimates.

 

[Sirfun]

Everyone looking at such a table has to understand that those numbers are gross estimates.

I'm curious what you mean by gross. When I look at that chart I see the 2010 Roadster range being extremely gross. Also I find it interesting that not one vehicle on those charts, was estimated of being capable of accomplishing the rated range at 70mph. So AJ, do you feel like those numbers were low?

 

[ldjessee]

But if the EPA says this model has 300 miles of range, what speed is that based on? 55? 65? 70?

EPA tests (or estimates) at several driving speeds, the top being 80mph as part of the Freeway test.

(nasty EPA URL)

 

[ajdelange]

I'm curious what you mean by gross. When I look at that chart I see the 2010 Roadster range being extremely gross. Also I find it interesting that not one vehicle on those charts, was estimated of being capable of accomplishing the rated range at 70mph. So AJ, do you feel like those numbers were low?

What I mean by gross is that one really cannot accurately specify a number because there are so many things that determine the "range". What, after all, is range? It is the distance once can go if he starts with a fully charged battery and runs the car until the battery is depleted. No one ever operates his car in such a fashion. Given that one did that he wouldn't get the same number in two successive trials because there are so many random variables involved. The EPA number tries to tamp some of that variability down by making a bunch of assumptions and prescribing a test protocol which makes the EPA range a gross measure of the relative distance one can drive two cars tested under that same protocol.

Do I feel those numbers are low? Not necessarily. It is impossible to say whether they are low or high. The real question that one is interested in it "Will I do better than those numbers or worse?" and the answer is that I, nor no one knows. Some will do better and some will do worse. That's why those numbers should only be looked at as crude estimates.

 

[Crissa]

If you want gross, you should see the range difference for motorcycles at speed. You can lose 50% or more.

And with a road trip... That's exactly what you do. You get onto a highway, push the accelerator, and go.

Weather, hills, load, they all matter, sure, but you need to know how far you can go between stop. It's no difference than for an ICE vehicle.

Except, with electrics, usually you never visit a plug outside your usual parking spot at home. That's why an electric doesn't need the range of a gas or diesel. You just need enough to make it between stops, or a decent round-trip to somewhere past the last charging station (or home).

Which for my motorcycle, translates to me knowing which beaches I can take the freeway to and get home in one charge ^-^

-Crissa

 

[Handy Artie]

If you make a living as a teamster you need to have a commercial vehicle with as close as possible to a 600 mile range which you achieve in 10 hours of driving. I think the Tesla Semi and CT are almost there. We’ll learn how close on battery day next month near the time of its annual meeting. Autonomous driving can be optimized for range as can battery size and motor/generator/rectifier numbers. The price / range should be continually improving with software and hardware innovation. Tesla’s vertical integration model of vehicle development is the best way of ensuring decreasing price / range as well as decreasing operating costs with solar roof expansion.

 

[ajdelange]

Keep in mind that the 500 miles range for the TriMotor was calculated with the new battery technology "priced in" by which I mean the engineers worked from a set of battery numbers projected from the lab studies of the new tech.

Much more important is to understand that the 500 mile number is, in the case of the CT, that of the vehicle by itself - the way in which it will be operated the majority of the time. While it is no more possible to predict loaded range accuracy than unloaded there will certainly be a dramatic drop in range when a trailer is connected. With an unloaded "working range" of a TriMotor with no trailer attached being around 375 miles the working range of one pulling the maximum load is going to something like half of that. (187 miles).

With the Semi, conversely, the range is specified for maximum load. Thus the 300 or 500 mile numbers imply working ranges of 225 or 375 miles loaded. These are not adequate for long range trucking thus the Semi will serve the partial load shorter range market (e.g. a outlet chain moving product from one warehouse to another or a warehouse to a store). The long haul jobs will require something like what Nikola is promising.

 

[cyberhunter]

Keep in mind that the 600 miles range for the TriMotor was calculated with the new battery technology "priced in" by which I mean the engineers worked from a set of battery numbers projected from the lab studies of the new tech.

Much more important is to understand that the 600 mile number is, in the case of the CT, that of the vehicle by itself - the way in which it will be operated the majority of the time. While it is no more possible to predict loaded range accuracy than unloaded there will certainly be a dramatic drop in range when a trailer is connected. With an unloaded "working range" of a TriMotor with no trailer attached being around 375 miles the working range of one pulling the maximum load is going to something like half of that. (187 miles).

With the Semi, conversely, the range is specified for maximum load. Thus the 300 or 500 mile numbers imply working ranges of 225 or 375 miles loaded. These are not adequate for long range trucking thus the Semi will serve the partial load shorter range market (e.g. a outlet chain moving product from one warehouse to another or a warehouse to a store). The long haul jobs will require something like what Nikola is promising.

When did the TriMotor CT get a 600 mile range estimate?

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