Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW

Geo

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You apparently missed the whole point of the post. It wasn’t about FSD, it was about how the vehicles are manufactured.
Nope, apparently your comprehension is way way off, the article, my comment was in response to, is only about FSD and autonomy.





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and how much more effort and energy is required from him to be ready to take over. And we are both entertained by the exercise when Im in the car.
This made me laugh... pressing the stick up is hardly any "effort and energy". But, yeah, it's not where it needs to be quite yet but I enjoy those long stretches where I feel more free to look around at my surroundings while "driving".
 

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P.S. A friend of mine just got his Tesla, and can't believe how terrible Auto pilot is. Its annoying how often it suddenly abandons duties and how much more effort and energy is required from him to be ready to take over. And we are both entertained by the exercise when Im in the car.
Not sure whether you are being serious here or not but I will point out that for us older guys whose reaction times are no longer so great the nervous tension that comes with autopilot is pretty stressfull. I suppose it would be similar to what one would experience in supervising his teenage daughter diving his brand new, super expensive, luxury car down the freeway for the first time in heavy traffic. And my passenger is not at all entertained when this happens. She shrieks, then asks me whether I did that or Christine (the car's name) did that and then tells me to turn it off.
 
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Geo

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You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You are just circulating nonsense that you could pick up anywhere. The strategy that TESLA is employing in software, hardware, fleet data collection and AI have NO competitor. Talk to somebody who really has one, and do some research into the technical details of what they are actually developing.

Somebody that can land a "stick" falling from space can achieve anything, and my model 3 is effin amazing (no phantom braking, and doing pretty well on A roads in UK) Most of the trouble I have is the EU legal limitations on the platform, which is slowly being adapted with speed reduction workarounds. Latest version of software can recognise unsignposted give-way intersections in UK and I have no idea what cues it is taking !

I have been watching the FSD system improve for a year now and am very impressed with the progress. Cannot wait for the 4D core AI rewrite though !
Sycophant Alert :

"you clearly have no idea what you're talking about" : Wow:
How is it possible for Elon to do any work, when there are so many sycophants so far up his intestinal tract.

"Somebody that can land a stick falling from space can achieve anything" : A great achievement in one field, means no fault and or automatic completed development in another field !
Ummm ok sure, if that's how you think, I'm sorry, but your reasoning skills are openly on display and Its clear, its best to leave you alone with you excellent critical thinking while your busy perhaps contemplating how to protect yourself from Covid -19 and which to do first, drink or inject Bleach.

"my model 3 is effin amazing (no phantom braking, . . " :
Clearly as it has not happened to you, I understand sir, that it means for you, it therefore means others are lying and that your not a foolish Sycophant. But those others who in one instance are the TFL guys capturing that phantom braking on camera, with the Model X, is a little more compelling documented truth, that funnily enough is a little more reality that your, "It hasn't happened to me "!

I have been watching the FSD system improve . . : Yes we all have, isn't it wonderful, we all agree on that ;-). But none the less, as the German Court just ruled, its a tiny, teeny weeny bit misleading to sell it as "FULL SELF DRIVING" and Tesla shall now stop labelling it as such. (other jurisdictions and court cases to follow.

Sycophant Alert : Im sure you'll. wear that description with pride

P.S. Just like Elon cant actually respond to every unfounded and ridiculously foolish criticism of him . . . . others cant respond to every sycophants claim that Elon is the messiah and he's never wrong about anything. . . . . . . But sometimes we all have a little fun when we make the exception and occasionally respond ;)
 
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ejay

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Tesla is at Level 2 autonomy ! That's not 6 years ahead of anything or anybody !

The fact is other company's are at level 3 and a couple are at level 5 in a controlled geofenced environment.

So in no way, shape or form, can it be declared Tesla is 6 years ahead !

While the race for Level 5 unqualified full autonomy continues.

They may one day get to level 5 full autonomy, I certainly hope they do, but to suggest they are 6 years ahead, like its a metric that can be quantified like that, is sheer absurdity, ignorance, or sycophancy.
If you look at it that way (the level 5 in a controlled geofenced environment.) then everyone is 100 Years behind ( we have been doing the controlled conditions BS since the 1920's . It's always been possible under controlled (Known) conditions.) Personally, I think the missing link here in this article is that the hardware is just part of the story, Tesla did not go down the rout of development under controlled conditions). Tesla's approach was and is to use existing vehicle video data to teach the hardware. Hardware 3's capability in terms of the neural net learning is Vastly superior to their previous hardware which used of the shelf silicone. No one else is doing this. NO ONE. also, from Hardware 3 onwards, it will be much harder for their software to be stolen ( as it has been by employees that have been pouched by other startups. I am confidant that my Cyber truck with full self driving ( when I eventually get it) will be ahead of any other automaker at the time by at least 3 to 5 years. " Shut up and take my money Tesla"
 

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just my opinion but when Elon mentioned level 5 this or next year it was like a baby announcement. The baby needs to learn but it is a level 5 baby not a level 2 baby. This will be an interesting topic in a few years, until then keep your eyes on the road and hands on the wheels.
Elon frequently mislabels these levels. No Current Tesla will reach level 5 because they all have steering wheels. Level 4 is Autonomous allowing for I some edge cases requiring intervention, level 5 is Autonomous without the ability for direct intervention from a passenger except for a emergency stop. Specifically not having a steering wheel or control pedals.

So, current Model S 3 X Y “might” reach level 4 by year end but I highly doubt many owners will be removing the steering wheel and/or Pedals from their cars to make them level 5.
 

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If you have to be within a geo fenced are to attain Level 5 it isn't Level 5. Level 5 is all driver functions under all conditions. No restrictions other than the obvious ones such as that one is on a road.

Whether the car has pedals and a steering wheel or not does not have anything to do with its Level 5 capability. Level 5 simply means that it can do everything the driver does under all driving conditions whether the driver is in the drivers seat or asleep in the back seat. A level 5 car does not need either pedals or a steering wheel when in Level 5 mode but Level 5 does not preclude their presence. NHTSAs definition specifically mentions that the driver may still control the car at some times. In any case we wouldn't want a car that never allowed driver control. That might be fine for a public ride sharing service (the cars would still be manually drivable with some sort of plug in controller) but when and if Level 5 is ever realized consumer cars will have controls.

Perhaps the definitions are different in Oz?
 
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TyPope

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Elon frequently mislabels these levels. No Current Tesla will reach level 5 because they all have steering wheels. Level 4 is Autonomous allowing for I some edge cases requiring intervention, level 5 is Autonomous without the ability for direct intervention from a passenger except for a emergency stop. Specifically not having a steering wheel or control pedals.

So, current Model S 3 X Y “might” reach level 4 by year end but I highly doubt many owners will be removing the steering wheel and/or Pedals from their cars to make them level 5.
Level 5: Steering wheel optional

It's optional... doesn't say the steering wheel must be removed. However, Level 5 would require the vehicle to be able to operate on all roads, in all weather conditions, all year around, without human intervention. I don't think we are anywhere near this capability. (I say that after a trip in the rain where my MY would no longer navigate due to "extreme weather"... It was simply raining enough to have to run the windshield wipers)

Level 4: No driver attention is needed for safety... the driver may safely go to sleep or leave the driver's seat... supported only in geofenced areas

Level 3: Eyes off. Driver can watch a movie... Driver must be ready to intervene within some limited time. (This level would be quite restful during long drives as you wouldn't have to be constantly holding the wheel. You'd be able to eat a hamburger while driving with ease. This level of autonomy is what I'm hoping they hit this year... but, I'm only cautiously optimistic it will come to pass.
 

jerhenderson

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WOW that is fantastic news.
We should expect our Robotaxi's any day now ;)
You should start holding your breath :ROFLMAO:

As already mentioned, others have already reached level 5 with conditions.
(but still far from available to the market, much to the relief of Uber and others)

So suggesting Tesla is also at level 5 in an unreleased version, is actually once again meaningless.
And that's if you believe that they are actually there. It is in fact unverified, where as for other contenders it is actually verified.

Level 2 capable, is what the cars are sold as, and are defended as, in court cases, especially the last one, just a couple of weeks ago, they lost in Germany, and can no longer use the label
"Full Self Driving". That suggests there're going backwards !
Other country's and court cases are now coming up.

"When they finally reach close, just close, to level 5 Autonomy, not actually Level 5 autonomy,
then the March of 9's will commence and it will take quite some time from there.

P.S. A friend of mine just got his Tesla, and can't believe how terrible Auto pilot is. Its annoying how often it suddenly abandons duties and how much more effort and energy is required from him to be ready to take over. And we are both entertained by the exercise when Im in the car.

Oh' and then there's the shock of it doing something severe and without reason, like applying the brakes hard when on the freeway, for no apparent reason . . . . which sometimes causes accident or they are narrowly avoided, but it works wonders for the driver and occupants mental state
... maybe the ' no apparent reason ' was a near accident 'your friend' wasn't even aware of.....since driving numbers show that engaged autopilot cars are in 10x fewer accidents.
 
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10 Years of Tesla Riding the Green Dream; Rival Automakers See Red
Published: August 6, 2020 4:51 PM

The future looks electric. One of Musk’s babies is growing up fast.

With his wife next to him and kids in tow, Elon Musk had rung the bell at Nasdaq. It was June 29, 2010 as Tesla Inc launched its IPO. The shares were lapped up by the market and everyone was looking for a brighter tomorrow. Musk wanted to engineer that change. Even as Musk was doing the honours, the Roadster was on display at the Times Square in New York. Selling at $109,000 then, it was the only car that Tesla had launched till then.

The company is no more a one-trick pony. People now want to ride an electric car and contribute their small bit for the environment. That has driven up the value of the company has now beaten all other automobile companies, barring Toyota. Well, almost!

Little could anyone imagine that an IPO launched at $17/share in 2010 could have a dream run like it has. Electric cars were, then, like a dream and Musk was selling nothing short of a dream. Now hovering around $950/share, the wealth creation dream has been realised for many.

The second-quarter results from Tesla are due shortly. It will detail the number of units sold and decide how long it would take for it to become the most valued car company in the world.

Tesla vs Toyota

2-182.jpg
(Comparison of Toyota and Tesla stocks over 10 years) Source: Stockal


Surging market value

When the IPO happened, the world was coming out of the financial meltdown. The US Energy Department extended help to Tesla with a $465 million loan. It helped turn the company around and was repaid in three years.

But the announcement that he made after that was more daring. Musk said that he was buying a plant that had been shut down, earlier run by General Motors and Toyota, then the two biggest car companies in the world. That plant was turned into the first of the three plants that Tesla now has.

When Tesla announced the Gigafactory in 2014 with Panasonic as its partner, it showed the ability of the company to create a structure that allowed vertical integration of its supply chain.

Two years later, when Model S was launched it was a challenge for the established brands. It set the ball rolling for more success. Boosting its production was going to be a challenge.

The maverick Musk one day tweeted that he would take Tesla private and offer the shareholders $420 a share, still an incredible return on investment for those who had bought the company during the IPO. He claimed that the funding was in place but fortunately for shareholders, he stepped back a little later. The SEC was not amused and he was stripped of the post of the Chairman of the company for three years till 20201.

The Gigafactory at Nevada is now profitable and things can only get better from here, as investors are narrowing its gap with Toyota Motors.

1-201.jpg
Tesla’s car sales

Breakneck speed

Moving at a breakneck speed has been the hallmark of Musk and Tesla. Within a year of breaking ground, Tesla and its partner in China were able to begin vehicle deliveries. It was something that none of his competitors could have imagined.

It was critical to grow in the world’s largest automobile market. The speed ensured that Tesla products could be manufactured locally, avoiding the duties to be paid. It could also help grow the market that sold well over a million plug-in electric cars in 2019.

The country sold 25.8 million cars in 2019, despite an 8.2 percent fall against the year before.

The future looks electric. One of Musk’s babies is growing up fast.

Source: FINANCIAL EXPRESS
 

Crissa

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Thus being at Level 5 within a geofence is a contradiction.
No.

Every human driver is geofenced. We have licenses that only operate in certain areas, and can be banned from cities, countries, counties, military bases, etc. And are.

I just spent six months 'geofenced' from freeways and nighttime riding while I was on a motorcycle learner's permit. Did that mean I didn't know how to ride in those conditions? No!

-Crissa
 

ajdelange

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Apparently you don't understand what geofencing is. In this case it means that the developer had been gone about inside a certain area (inside the fence) and made measurements with LIDAR... upon which measurements the autopilot depends for safe operation. Outside the fence the autopilot can't find its way. It has no map. Thus outside the fence it has to "map". This is in distinct conflict with the definition of Level 5 which requires that the autopilot function properly irrespective of driving conditions i.e. whether you are inside or outside a particular area. This does not have anything to do with whether the vehicle has pedals or brakes not whether the passenger is authorized to be within a particular area. If you tell a true Level 5 system to drive to the mess hall at Area 51 it will take the car there whether the passenger has a pass for Area 51 or not and whether Area 51 has been LIDAR mapped or not. If it can't do that. It is not Level 5.
 

Crissa

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Apparently you don't understand what geofencing is.
Apparently you don't understand what geofencing is. It's a geographical limit of operations.

So when I had a license that said 'no freeways'... That meant I was limited to the geography that did not include freeways. My 'programming' therefore respects those boundaries. I was geofenced in those conditions

Yes, I know how software works.

-Crissa
 

ajdelange

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You could have easily looked this up for yourself but as you didn't here is one of dozens of similar definitions of geofencing raised by typing "geofencing" in the search bar of a web browser.

Geofencing is the practice of using global positioning (GPS) or radio frequency identification (RFID) to define a geographic boundary.

The restrictions on you drivers license are not geofencing. Look it up on Wikipedia for some examples of what geofencing is and how it is used.
 

Crissa

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You could have easily looked this up for yourself but...
Weird. You're still pedantic and wrong.

Not only is geofencing perpendicular to the autonomy level of robots, nothing in the implementation of it requires GPS or robot brains.

Handing a person instructions and telling them to stay within the yard is geofencing them. Putting a radio collar on a dog and having a wire in the ground or a range finding radio emitter in the yard is geofencing the dog. It's up to the robot or dog or person's own operating protocols whether it follows your instructions.

And Level 5 cars will always be geofenced. No one is going to let them drive anywhere you might want them to. Some towns will ban them. Some will refuse to use beaches, even though they're valid roads in some places. No one is going to let you drive out in their field without permission, and the robot will know that.

-Crissa
 

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