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Ogre

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Yes, but the car should still work if the cell phone doesn't. Cell phone as charger screen is a single point of failure: Bad.

-Crissa
Cell phone is a back up to the proper way of starting the charging session—the car negotiating the connection. Shouldn’t need a back up to the back up. What’s next a cash slot?

 

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Cell phone is a back up to the proper way of starting the charging session—the car negotiating the connection. Shouldn’t need a back up to the back up. What’s next a cash slot?
Depends on which charger network you want to use?

Need a universal EV ID that works on all networks without making an account for each. Its not like you have to make an account to get fuel either.
 

Crissa

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Cell phone is a back up to the proper way of starting the charging session—the car negotiating the connection. Shouldn’t need a back up to the back up. What’s next a cash slot?
California is only going to require credit, not cash, but yes.

The car can only negotiate with networks you've already left your details with and consented to payment prior.

I would love a day when my car was my passport, but legally that's a little bit of a problem. And it still doesn't cover the cases when the owner is out of credit or needs to borrow or share payment with a third party or account.

-Crissa
 

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Disunctional spelling on the other hand…
I would say he got an F in spelling. (but not in DisFunctional). :p
 

TyPope

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I defined my argument as 40x 350kW. Sure that is peak, but it's still pretty impressive? I know they won't all be running flat out, and that is why I said ROI on a poorly utilised setup like that won't be high?

But going from the physical sizes of those two transformers sitting there they are at least 3.5MW to 4MW each. Thats 7 - 8MW total plus megapack capacity. I have a 2.5MW transformer sitting in my backyard connected to our power station and ours isn't as big by far.

On ROI: if 40 stalls are full 10 hours of the day and are charging at 75kW average as you say, and Tesla charges $0.10c premium on every kWh of electricity charged you get $3000 a day or a $1m a year. Not really that great given that it's fairly unlikely to run at that rate.

Do you have any figures on Capex? $5-7m seems about right? $1m for Megapack, $1.75m for the SC units alone, network connection, switchgear transformers another $1m, thats nearly $4m and you still have to do all the roads, stalls, solar, siteworks, planning, approvals, labour and property itself etc. Thats best case 20%, but more likely around 10% ROI. That wouldn't be getting me out of bed in the morning. My last project was 370% over 4 years. :unsure:

The comment about v4 allowing other brands to charge makes me think utilisation rate is in fact a problem.
I would argue that the Super Charger Network is what allows Tesla to sell cars at 30% ROI. Telsa may not make as much on the SCN as they do on their cars but without the one, you don't get the other. So, in this way, the SCN enables Tesla to make 30% ROI...

If you are making a case for a private entity investing in just a Super Charger location and they didn't have a little snack shop, cafe, diner, etc., then, yes, 10% ROI is a stretch.
 


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I would argue that the Super Charger Network is what allows Tesla to sell cars at 30% ROI. Telsa may not make as much on the SCN as they do on their cars but without the one, you don't get the other. So, in this way, the SCN enables Tesla to make 30% ROI...

If you are making a case for a private entity investing in just a Super Charger location and they didn't have a little snack shop, cafe, diner, etc., then, yes, 10% ROI is a stretch.
Exactly. It would seem that Tesla is still in the development phase with its SC rollout, so paying a premium to lockdown good locations is actually more important for them than getting a good ROI, which will come with time. They are also flush with cash so their cost for capital is low, and they can look at long term investments.

With my calculation I was trying to scope out just how profitable a large SC setup like that is and if Tesla is doing it because its a cash cow, and if so, if there's an opportunity for third parties to do the same.
 

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Tesla SC network is because no one wanted to build a network. So Tesla had to do it. At this point its not about making incremental ROI on charging.

Tesla’s huge advantage today is because of the Tesla network, SC‘s and the network multiplier effect. Just taking the SC’s, the site and trying to live off charging is a lose-lose proposition as Standard Oil gas station operators learned in 60’s, Convenience store chains learned and Costco figured out how to use a loss as a multiplier.
 

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We still have exactly one "service station" left in Perth, where the attendant's put fuel in your car for you. Fuel price is average but it is always packed. No shortage of people who are willing to drive and pay a bit extra so they don't have to put fuel in their car.

They have a bunch of guys and girls running around doing it, I sometimes go there if I'm nearby for the nostalgia. 😎
 

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In OR USA that is how it is, you are not allowed to pump your own fuel.

For the screen in V4 or higher, I think my assumption may not be lining up with others.

I assumed we are moving toward the future and learning from our past. SC would be for all EV, so if you want a screen you will also need a card/chip reader to make the screen functional/practical. I am wondering if Tesla chooce no screen as no part is the best part and it's harder for amateur hackers. No card/chip readers then there are no skimmers or other hacks to worry about the damage the brand. If there are so many as fuel stations currently which have employees, just imagine how many on charges that don't have employees/security...

When creating solutions must take one self from own shoes and look at all possibilities. Cannot create a solutions for only one self as then only one self will use it.

Maybe cell phone is not the solution and biometric is. But I see as any device on a charger could and would get vandalized, at least today it would. Maybe in 20 years it will be different..
 

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Elon is a genius

Early interviews he mentioned how legacy had the parts business subsidizing its car sales, and that made it almost impossible for a new player to enter the market.

EV will have a growing parts business, but nowhere near the same scale as ICE, but we have the SC network which will one day overshadow any legacy parts income.

Tesla has about 4000 SC locations now, I reckon it will grow to over 250,000 locations. Well over.

That may sound ludicrous, but if we intend to build 20 million cars per year, and if we intend to grow the Robotaxi network to God knows what number.. we are talking about a monolith of a business.

Thats nothing... 100 million vehicles are sold each year.. one day they will all be EV's.

If the info coming out is correct, Supercharger installation for Tesla is 4-5 less than its competitors.

Competitors will make up ground, but Tesla will also move ahead... just like manufacturing, I don't see any global supercharger competitor getting close to tesla. Second place will be lightyears behind.

The superchargers will also feed back to the grid, add them to the huge future Tesla Energy network, using autobidder, only Tesla is in the box seat.

I don't think anyone has actually ever thought about the scale and income potential here.

just a rant lol
 


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In OR USA that is how it is, you are not allowed to pump your own fuel.
You can pump your own fuel:
After hours
Private filling station
Rural filling station
And now there's some weird under attendant supervision rule, too.

I don't trust places that don't let me give cash to the attendant or let me use my card myself. So last three times I filled up in Oregon it was 'after hours' or 'rural station'.

-Crissa
 
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Ogre

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You can pump your own fuel:
After hours
Private filling station
Rural filling station
And now there's some weird under attendant supervision rule, too.

I don't trust places that don't let me give cash to the attendant or let me use my card myself. So last three times I filled up in Oregon it was 'after hours' or 'rural station'.

-Crissa
Apparently you can now pump diesel self serve too. Something I hadn’t seen before.
 

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I had my card skimmed at a Sam's Club gas station of all places. Meh, whatever. It's the credit card's company's problem, not mine. Press a button in the app to declare it fraud, use a different credit card, new card is in the mail a few days later. Non event.
 

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Imagine there are public chargers for cell phones. Would they need a separate screen? Or a coin slot? lol

I think if someone is truly in an emergency situation at a public EV charger, they should be able to call a number and have an operator assist them. But having chargers with screens and card readers just adds up to more things to break, with a higher cost that slows adoption.
 

 
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