The cost of driving an EV?

LKP

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The simplicity is this: At my home I will have a solar system that will fully provide for my EVs, because the sun shines. Now, I have also seen charge stations out in the world with solar panels to supply the stations. So, you have to manufacture the PV panels, the cages and racks, the nuts and bolts, the wiring, the controllers and inverters, and other misc necessities. Then...

...no ship wrecks dumping millions of gallons of crude oil in the fragile ecosystem (Valdez, BP, etc). No extraction of those billions of gallons of oil from the earth, leaving what... voids? And then processing of those billions of gallons to create something usable. Wait, and we're asking how driving EVs will be better for the environment? I've just gotten started... shall we continue? peace
"When there's a huge solar energy spill, it's just called a nice day."
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Crissa

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Up to the point the battery has to be replaced, I think EV's make a dramatic win on operating costs, particularly for commuting.
The battery replacement for a Model 3 is about $16k. The average price for electricity in the US is 16¢ a kWh. A Model 3 does about four miles per kWh. So even if a battery failed at 100,000 miles, that's an additional cost of $17,000.

Let's say a similar car to the Model 3 uses 30mph (it's lower, actually), it would consume 3.3 thousand gallons of gasoline in 100,000 miles.

So in this absolutely ridiculous situation, that has never happened, the Model 3 would cost just less than double for 'fuel' than the gas car. If that Model 3 batter makes it to 200,000 miles, it will cost less. If gas prices climb again, the Model 3 comes into parity sooner.

But that's not how this works. At all. Batteries rarely need to be replaced if they got to 100k miles in the first place. EVs have lots of other things they do cheaper, like they don't have engines that wear out, or fluids that need changing frequently. They reach parity of cost within a few years and don't take ten to do so.

-Crissa
 
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FullyGrounded

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But, too... Elon says he's working on the million mile battery. That will be another game changer. We will see. I just wish Elon wasn't pulled so many different directions now. peace
 

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The simplicity is this: At my home I will have a solar system that will fully provide for my EVs, because the sun shines. Now, I have also seen charge stations out in the world with solar panels to supply the stations. So, you have to manufacture the PV panels, the cages and racks, the nuts and bolts, the wiring, the controllers and inverters, and other misc necessities. Then...

...no ship wrecks dumping millions of gallons of crude oil in the fragile ecosystem (Valdez, BP, etc). No extraction of those billions of gallons of oil from the earth, leaving what... voids? And then processing of those billions of gallons to create something usable. Wait, and we're asking how driving EVs will be better for the environment? I've just gotten started... shall we continue? peace
It should actually be named "hydrocarbon" fuel, reason being is that there are oil rigs that have drilled deeper than 40,000 feet below the surface and get goodly amounts of oil. BUT, "fossils" exist from surface level to about 24ish thousand feet down. - this is another days discussion.

Voids, tho not all, have been filled up again - this is for another discussion way into the future.

Hydrocarbon fuel will still be needed for quite awhile.
 
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Pappy

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Soooo, last year we leased the new 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid, being a nutcase on data, I tracked the actual mileage this vehicle realized over a year (58.5mpg). It’s the wife’s car and she is now boasting her Hybrid will out perform my CT on fuel cost per mile. Fuel in our area was, (big emphasis on WAS, $2.00 per gallon) while we’re on TOU with our electricity provider at .06 cents and .26 cents. What do y’all think, is she right?
 

rr6013

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I did some napkin math on the CT, my house electric bill, and compared that to the 40mpg diesel car I have.

Connecticut now has some of the most expensive electricity in the country, and because of that, there's little to no cost savings to propel the CT vs my diesel car.

A majority of the savings is going to be in maintenance. And that will add up for me, especially since my BMW is a effin' nightmare when it comes to the diesel emissions hardware. I'll be savings hundreds a month.

Now that I'm over 200k miles on my car, I'm averaging $300/mo. in maintenance. And that doesn't include fixing the body damage from a-holes in parking lots and NJ gas attendants that damaged the fuel door, not once, but twice! Who the efff hits the fuel door with the nozzle to close it????
Crissa’s work looks impressive. ToC/mi for Cybertruck would be thrilled anywhere near .40/mi. eGTO.

Lived South Salem NY where one month paid $6k elec bill one winter. I feel your CT pain. My diesel car never got below $0.84/mi. GTO. Maintenance adds up with miles after those first 70k honeymoon miles.
 

rr6013

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What's the cost of the battery? Monetary and environment? Up to the point the battery has to be replaced, I think EV's make a dramatic win on operating costs, particularly for commuting. What does it cost to replace a battery on a Cybertruck and what is involved with recycling? There are plant recycling EV batteries now, but how effective is it? Just asking for curiosity, not trying to rain on a parade or anything. I really like EV's for a number of reasons, but everything in life is two edged and cuts both ways.

There is also the issue of replacing portions of the grid to feed power to locations where EV's will be charged. Ideally, everyone will wind up with solar on the roof, but that expense is not inconsequential and could well discourage some. Most will charge at night which helps the grid in most locations, but requires the end user to have batteries for solar and enough capacity to allow for cloudy days. If one does 50 miles/day, what is the cost of solar and batteries to maintain an EV?
Fact: BEV is grid-tied electric. Latest study reports EV owner uptake on backup battery storage at 6.5%. Battery panel is preparatory to solar panels. BEV+solar % significantly differ? I doubt without Federal incentive as a smart grid campaign. Tesla will have to lobby to get US grid infrastructure brought into the 21st Century or TX will be the nominal incentivization.
 

Firetruck41

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Soooo, last year we leased the new 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid, being a nutcase on data, I tracked the actual mileage this vehicle realized over a year (58.5mpg). It’s the wife’s car and she is now boasting her Hybrid will out perform my CT on fuel cost per mile. Fuel in our area was, (big emphasis on WAS, $2.00 per gallon) while we’re on TOU with our electricity provider at .06 cents and .26 cents. What do y’all think, is she right?
At $0.06 you will be half her fuel cost or less...
 

Throwcomputer

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Funny that these threads are full of comparisons to 40mpg ice vehicles.

We are talking comparisons of cyber truck to ice trucks. It is more appropriate to compare the real world ice truck fuel economy to the CT, which is more optimistically 20-24mpg.

My truck is 8mpg city and 16mpg highway and 90% of mileage is city. So it's a huge cost savings with this switch.
 
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SSonnentag

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Funny that these threads are full of comparisons to 40mpg ice vehicles.

We are talking comparisons of cyber truck to ice trucks. It is more appropriate to compare the real world ice truck fuel economy to the CT, which is more optimistically 20-24mpg.

My truck is 8mpg city and 16mpg highway and 90% of mileage is city. So it's a huge cost savings with this switch.
I just took a look at fuelly.com to see what the average F-150 is getting for fuel mileage. The numbers below are for ALL F-150 models, V6 and V8, as well as all cab and bed styles.

A V8, 4x4, crewcab is lucky to average 15 mpg.


F-150.png
 

Throwcomputer

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I just took a look at fuelly.com to see what the average F-150 is getting for fuel mileage. The numbers below are for ALL F-150 models, V6 and V8, as well as all cab and bed styles.

F-150.png
Exactly. So comparing a hybrid sedan fuel economy when discussing trucks is not showing the true cost savings.

I use fuelly for my Ridgeline. The real world cost savings on the last three years of gas for actual mileage, if the suggested cost of charging a cyber truck is similar to what friends who own Tesla cars say it costs.. i am saving 3-5k over the same mileage on 3 years of ownership, or approximately $1100/yr at current prices. Prices will only go up. Good enough for me, especially given the cost of gas will only get more expensive.

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Pappy

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Exactly. So comparing a hybrid sedan fuel economy when discussing trucks is not showing the true cost savings.

I use fuelly for my Ridgeline. The real world cost savings on the last three years of gas for actual mileage, if the suggested cost of charging a cyber truck is similar to what friends who own Tesla cars say it costs.. i am saving 3-5k over the same mileage on 3 years of ownership, or approximately $1100/yr at current prices. Prices will only go up. Good enough for me, especially given the cost of gas will only get more expensive.

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I can compare a car to a truck anytime I want. It is fair to do so…..they both transport people from point A to point B at a specific cost. That was my point entirely. I can guarantee you this the final cost to own a CT will be much greater than the Toyota Corolla Hybrid over yours and my lifetimes combined. And I can also guarantee that my wife sill be sure to remind me of this fact every time I take my CT out for a spin. 😂😂😂
 

ajdelange

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[Edit: The average cost of a kWh of electricity in the US has crept up t0 13.8¢ so I have edited the cost numbers to reflect that]

The CT is going to consume about .450 kWh per mile driven. To obtain the cost per mile you multiply 0.45 times the cost per kWh. The average is 13.8¢ so the average cost is 6.27¢/mi. Costs for electricity vary from state to state. Some utilities have variable rates depending on what time of day you do the charging. If you have solar panels or a windmill in a net metering locale the solar energy you generate can reduce the cost of the electricity you use to charge and as the solar you generate depends on season your effective cost per mile varies with season too. Charges taken from Superchargers are more expensive than charges taken on at home as Tesla charges more per kWh. I think the rate is 28¢/kWh so a mile will cost you 12.6¢.

Electricity also comes with a CO2 cost. Most electricity in the US is generated from natural gas and the average CO2 emission associated with the production of 1 kWh is 0.91 lbs. Thus for each mile driven in a CT you will effectively emit 0.41 lbs of CO2 if you charged you vehicle from a utility that burns natural gas. Coal produces more than twice as much CO2: 2.21 lbs/kWh; 1 lb/mi. Hydro, wind and nuclear produce no CO2. Biomass is considered carbon neutral because the CO2 emitted when it is burned gets turned into another tree (eventually). Utilities often disclose their sources and the percentages taken from each. From this you can calculate how clean your power is. For example my utility is approximately 70% gas and 30% nuclear so it "contains" 0.7*0.91 = 0.637 lbs of CO2 per kWh. If I blend 55% utility power with 45% solar power the charge "contains" 0.55*0.637 = 0.35 lbs CO2/kwh and my burden is 0.45 times that or 0.16 lbs of CO2/mile. You can also look at this by recognizing that the utility power is 70% dirty so that a blend using 55% utility and 45% solar is 0.55*.7 = 38.5% dirty.

A gallon of gasoline produces about 19 lbs of CO2 so a truck with fuel "economy" of 19 mpg will leave 1 lb/mi CO2. Note that this is exactly the same as a CT charged with electricity from a coal burning plant. But it is 2.44 times as much as will be effectively emitted by a CT charged from a utility burning gas and infinitely more than a CT charged at a Quebec Hydro SC.

Thus to get an answer to the questions posed by the OP one must do a little research into what electric rates are in his area and where the utility sources its power. To compare to an ICE vehicle he needs the MPG for that vehicle and, of course, current gas prices.
 
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happy intruder

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I created a sheet showing comparative costs for ICE vs EV over here https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...or-at-a-tesla-charging-station.286/post-30273



-Crissa
hey crissa.....can you update the numbers? I live in Irvine and gas here is on average $4.20/gal for regular....premium is $4.79/gal.....my electricity is $0.17/kW from 9:00pm to 4:00pm and $.45/kW from 4:00pm tp 9:00pm......on the weekend and holidays, it is $0.17/kW and $0.35/kW......

wish I could l=find a place for $0.08/kW....hahahaha
 
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