Throwcomputer

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Very good but somethings are missing.
1. Cybertruck is too clean
2. Cybertruck has no skulls and other stuff.
3. Maybe if you add a big V type snow plow blade or a train steam engine locomotive cow catcher/diverter on front of Cybertruck?
Witness me!!!

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anionic1

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The Cybertrucks stainless steel won't be recycled into appliances unless by 'recycled' you mean refined back into base metals for re-use. The cold-rolled stainless will be a completely different product than what appliances are made of. Appliances scratch really easily, they are made of very soft stainless compared to the alloy and hardening process the truck will be fabricated from.

I was watching a recent interview with Elon and he elaborated a bit on how they selected the metal for the Starship. Previously, Elon had alluded that the Cybertruck might use the same metal. It turns out, SpaceX didn't really 'select' the metal for Starship as much as they developed a new alloy variation. Elon said it's a specially formulated alloy that requires a special mill run every time they want to buy more. Whether Cybertruck will be this exact alloy, a normal mill run alloy or a variation specially designed for Cybertruck remains to be seen. But we know for certain it will be cold-rolled multiple times to make it tougher than the alloy (whatever it is) would be without roll-hardening. Roll hardening retains the ease of welding of this class of stainless steels while making it much tougher. The downside is that it becomes so hard it can no longer be formed by stamping, it needs to be scored and folded on an industrial metal brake. Hence the flat shapes of the Cybertruck. This will be 3 mm thick (about 1/8") which puts it on the dividing line between what whould be called "sheet metal" and
"metal plate".

Roll hardening aligns the grains of metal to be progressively stronger the more times it is passed through hardened steel rollers with many hundreds of tons of pressure at room temperature. The strength gained by roll-hardening has a directional nature to it. This means Tesla will cut the components of the Cybertruck from the sheets relative to the direction of the roll-hardening. This will be necessary to control the quality and uniformity of the resulting panels. Without doing this there would be no consistency in the final parts. It can also be taken advantage of by laying out the components so the strength is maximized in the directions required. I'm heartened that the steel will come from a brand-new mill near the factory using new, state-of-the-art rolling equipment. This will greatly ease the difficulty of manufacture and increase the quality and consistency of the finished products.

The difference in strength and toughness of 301 and 304 series stainless steel when full soft (as in most kitchen appliances) and cold-rolled to various levels of hardness should not be under-estimated. Cold rolling can more than double the tensile strength and more than quadruple the yield strength without adding any weight to the material when compared to the common annealed versions. Increasing the hardness by cold-rolling also increases surface hardness by up to 2-3x.

It will be exciting to learn exactly which alloys and hardness levels Tesla selects for the Cybertruck. Will the alloys be custom or regular mill run alloys? It's highly likely, given Tesla's tendency to optimize materials for the design, that they will use different alloys and hardness levels for different components to suit the desired characteristics.
I also think it’s a common misconception that the body will be stainless. The exoskeleton will be stainless. I still expect that there will be numerous stamped body parts in the unibody frame that I bet will be not stainless, but yes the exterior body panel will be stainless. My bet is that they will use a structural adhesive or possibly a mechanical adhesive system that combines the steel and stainless steel parts to create an overall body. So will it last 100 years without significant rust. My guess is that the steel parts will still get some exposure and may still be susceptible to rust but not nearly as much as a typical body.
 

HaulingAss

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I also think it’s a common misconception that the body will be stainless. The exoskeleton will be stainless. I still expect that there will be numerous stamped body parts in the unibody frame that I bet will be not stainless, but yes the exterior body panel will be stainless. My bet is that they will use a structural adhesive or possibly a mechanical adhesive system that combines the steel and stainless steel parts to create an overall body. So will it last 100 years without significant rust. My guess is that the steel parts will still get some exposure and may still be susceptible to rust but not nearly as much as a typical body.
The exoskeleton is the body (so, yes, the body will be stainless steel). I'm not saying there won't be different types of steel used in various places but you can bet the parts of the body exposed to road spray will all be stainless steel. No more rusted out wheel arches, etc. Tesla has a lot of expertise in metallurgy and will make good use of it to ensure appropriate materials are used in appropriate areas.

The idea is to prevent the kind of failures that determine the end of life for traditional trucks when used in the rust belt. Of course, things like wheel bearings, ball joints, etc. could still rust but that's what grease with rust inhibitors is for.

No more of this:

1637871710913.png


Oh, wait, there won't be door handles!

How about this:
1637872009127.png


Of course it's not limited to trucks from Dodge:

1637872134076.png


And it's not limited to older trucks either, a lot has to do with how much materials engineering went into the design and the quality of coatings used. Here's a 2021 Ford that is not getting a good start in life. This is how these trucks looked when delivered new!

1637872384735.png

and:
1637872443408.png


This is what happens when you cut costs at the owners expense. Ford's answer to this? Release a statement saying, "While some F-150 underbody steel components may show signs of surface rust, this will have no impact on part performance or life."

While I'll be the first to admit that a little surface rust is no big deal, look at those bolts! That's how the 2021 F-150 was delivered, brand new! Not a good beginning to your $45,000 brand new truck.

Think "Toyota quality" prevents rusted frames? Think again:

1637872874536.png
1637871710913.png
1637871933161.png
1637872009127.png
1637872134076.png
1637872384735.png
1637872443408.png
1637872874536.png
 

Throwcomputer

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The exoskeleton is the body (so, yes, the body will be stainless steel). I'm not saying there won't be different types of steel used in various places but you can bet the parts of the body exposed to road spray will all be stainless steel. No more rusted out wheel arches, etc. Tesla has a lot of expertise in metallurgy and will make good use of it to ensure appropriate materials are used in appropriate areas.

The idea is to prevent the kind of failures that determine the end of life for traditional trucks when used in the rust belt. Of course, things like wheel bearings, ball joints, etc. could still rust but that's what grease with rust inhibitors is for.

No more of this:

1637871710913.png


Oh, wait, there won't be door handles!

How about this:
1637872009127.png


Of course it's not limited to trucks from Dodge:

1637872134076.png


And it's not limited to older trucks either, a lot has to do with how much materials engineering went into the design and the quality of coatings used. Here's a 2021 Ford that is not getting a good start in life. This is how these trucks looked when delivered new!

1637872384735.png

and:
1637872443408.png


This is what happens when you cut costs at the owners expense. Ford's answer to this? Release a statement saying, "While some F-150 underbody steel components may show signs of surface rust, this will have no impact on part performance or life."

While I'll be the first to admit that a little surface rust is no big deal, look at those bolts! That's how the 2021 F-150 was delivered, brand new! Not a good beginning to your $45,000 brand new truck.

Think "Toyota quality" prevents rusted frames? Think again:

1637872874536.png
1637871710913.png
1637871933161.png
1637872009127.png
1637872134076.png
1637872384735.png
1637872443408.png
1637872874536.png
That's not rust. That's a raptor attack.
 

Crissa

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For crumple zone reasons I predict that that the hood and front fenders will be thinner than 3mm in order to achieve a frontal 5-star crash rating.
No particular reason it needs to be thinned except in certain spots. It'll have hidden scores and folds for the crumple zone.

-Crissa
 

anionic1

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The exoskeleton is the body (so, yes, the body will be stainless steel). I'm not saying there won't be different types of steel used in various places but you can bet the parts of the body exposed to road spray will all be stainless steel. No more rusted out wheel arches, etc. Tesla has a lot of expertise in metallurgy and will make good use of it to ensure appropriate materials are used in appropriate areas.

The idea is to prevent the kind of failures that determine the end of life for traditional trucks when used in the rust belt. Of course, things like wheel bearings, ball joints, etc. could still rust but that's what grease with rust inhibitors is for.

No more of this:

1637871710913.png


Oh, wait, there won't be door handles!

How about this:
1637872009127.png


Of course it's not limited to trucks from Dodge:

1637872134076.png


And it's not limited to older trucks either, a lot has to do with how much materials engineering went into the design and the quality of coatings used. Here's a 2021 Ford that is not getting a good start in life. This is how these trucks looked when delivered new!

1637872384735.png

and:
1637872443408.png


This is what happens when you cut costs at the owners expense. Ford's answer to this? Release a statement saying, "While some F-150 underbody steel components may show signs of surface rust, this will have no impact on part performance or life."

While I'll be the first to admit that a little surface rust is no big deal, look at those bolts! That's how the 2021 F-150 was delivered, brand new! Not a good beginning to your $45,000 brand new truck.

Think "Toyota quality" prevents rusted frames? Think again:

1637872874536.png
1637871710913.png
1637871933161.png
1637872009127.png
1637872134076.png
1637872384735.png
1637872443408.png
1637872874536.png
The stainless exoskeleton is not the body. It’s the outer panels of the body.
 

CyberGus

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The stainless exoskeleton is not the body. It’s the outer panels of the body.
Yeah ummm no. The exoskeleton is the whole body (plus the castings of course). There are no “inner” panels or “outer” panels.

There may be some stamped parts in the form of brackets or suspension parts, but the structure of the truck is stainless.
 

anionic1

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Yeah ummm no. The exoskeleton is the whole body (plus the castings of course). There are no “inner” panels or “outer” panels.

There may be some stamped parts in the form of brackets or suspension parts, but the structure of the truck is stainless.
The previous patent submissions seem to show that the exoskeleton has other nterior panels involved that would not be considered exterior and thus not exoskeleton. I think they used the term exoskeleton very specifically because not all the body is stainless just the exoskeleton components. There is no way to build that truck if the entire body was 3mm stainless. There will be stamped steel components in the body parts that are not exoskeleton.
 

CyberGus

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The previous patent submissions seem to show that the exoskeleton has other nterior panels involved that would not be considered exterior and thus not exoskeleton. I think they used the term exoskeleton very specifically because not all the body is stainless just the exoskeleton components. There is no way to build that truck if the entire body was 3mm stainless. There will be stamped steel components in the body parts that are not exoskeleton.
Patents are not always implemented.

5A3304CD-6F1F-48F5-955A-0978E956F417.jpeg


This is the Cybertruck body. Those aren’t panels, it is one big piece.
 

anionic1

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Patents are not always implemented.

5A3304CD-6F1F-48F5-955A-0978E956F417.jpeg


This is the Cybertruck body. Those aren’t panels, it is one big piece.
You are definitely wrong. There is a lot of non stainless steel in this image and there are probably 10 pieces in what you are showing and no castings are shown. I saw it in person. Those exoskeleton panels are individual sheets. The front fender will probably be bent 3mm stainless with a stamped steel interior body parts. The back sail pillar is hinged for storage and that interior compartment is probably stamped steel. The patent even stated that the exoskeleton stainless panels may not be structural. Therefore they would be supported by interior structural components.
 

anionic1

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You are definitely wrong. There is a lot of non stainless steel in this image and there are probably 10 pieces in what you are showing and no castings are shown. I saw it in person. Those exoskeleton panels are individual sheets. The front fender will probably be bent 3mm stainless with a stamped steel interior body parts. The back sail pillar is hinged for storage and that interior compartment is probably stamped steel. The patent even stated that the exoskeleton stainless panels may not be structural. Therefore they would be supported by interior structural components.
Everything you see in that image will not be stainless. The exterior parts will be
 

CyberGus

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You are definitely wrong. There is a lot of non stainless steel in this image and there are probably 10 pieces in what you are showing and no castings are shown. I saw it in person. Those exoskeleton panels are individual sheets. The front fender will probably be bent 3mm stainless with a stamped steel interior body parts. The back sail pillar is hinged for storage and that interior compartment is probably stamped steel. The patent even stated that the exoskeleton stainless panels may not be structural. Therefore they would be supported by interior structural components.
https://insideevs.com/news/487355/tesla-cybertrucks-structure-unique-sandy-munro/
 

HaulingAss

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The previous patent submissions seem to show that the exoskeleton has other nterior panels involved that would not be considered exterior and thus not exoskeleton. I think they used the term exoskeleton very specifically because not all the body is stainless just the exoskeleton components.
No. It sounds like you have a misunderstanding of what the term "exoskeleton" means. Which is that the structural parts are around the perimeter of the structure, it doesn't imply the skeleton cannot be hollow, the inner layer is still part of the exoskeleton. The way the Cybertruck will gain strength to the exoskeleton is to have two layers in many areas with empty space in the middle. It's all exoskeleton even though some layers of the frame will be several inches inside the outer portion of the exoskeleton. What's key to the concept of it being an exoskeleton is the exoskeleton surrounds the passenger and cargo compartments. This will almost certainly be 100% stainless steel of varying hardness.

It's also important to note that all unibody vehicles could be loosely called "exoskeleton" but that Tesla is using the term in a purer manner because the body panels and inner panels will provide a much higher percentage of the chassis stiffness than in regular unibody construction. Because in typical unibody construction, the body panels and the rest of the upper body structure are used primarily to stiffen the under-chassis frame. The Cybertruck will also have an under-chassis frame but it will provide much less of total chassis stiffness, instead leaning much more heavily on the upper exoskeleton for most of the strength of the total structure. The upper body/exoskeleton in conjunction with the under-chassis will comprise the totality of the exoskeleton of the Cybertruck.


There is no way to build that truck if the entire body was 3mm stainless. There will be stamped steel components in the body parts that are not exoskeleton.
Not true at all. The most popular 30X series stainless steels can all be stamped into three-dimensional forms very nicely, even 3mm thick stainless. But it's a good assumption that many of the stampings might be a little thinner to shave weight where it is not needed (perhaps 2 mm). The thing that prevents stamping the entire exoskeleton is the cold rolling hardening process that will be used on the stainless that makes up the outermost layer (and probably some of the innermost layer in areas that are not stamped into 3D forms). The exterior layer is flat and angular because, once roll hardened sufficiently, it cannot be stamped. The non-hardened (or less hardened) stainless-steel stampings can be welded to the 3 mm thick cold-rolled exterior to create an even stronger structure and you can bet Tesla will choose an alloy that will remain corrosion resistant, even in the weld areas.

We have to wait for more info from Tesla or for the production version to be released to know more specifics about exactly which alloys and how much hardening is used in the outer panels (1/2 hard, 3/4 hard, full hard, etc.) and how the different areas are joined. On the latter point I'm expecting Tesla to rely heavily on welding with some use of threaded fasteners and glue joints. It's important to note that the windshield and roof glass will be an important part of the structural strength of the exoskeleton and this joint typically relies on high strength adhesives.

We live in exciting times for automotive enthusiasts!
 

anionic1

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I read it and many of the additional link. Two things are clarified by Munro. The Cybertruck cannot be called a true unibody because they are using the large castings combined with the structural battery pack to create somewhat of a frame for the body to sit on. Sandy does seem to assume that the entire body will be stainless and I flat out disagree. Musk never said the entire body would be and he stressed the exoskeleton stressed skin goal to lighten the truck. The image of the body will be comprised of a lot of pieces adhered together. Nowhere does anything say that the body will be one homogenous piece. Yes it will become one structure with many pieces combined and nowhere does it say that all those pieces will be stainless. Just the 3mm exoskeleton. They will not waste the money to make stamped stainless pieces for the rest of the body. It’s unnecessary and they won’t do it. They also will very likely make the the structural battery pack upper and lower plates out of painted steel as shown in the Berlin open house. The truck will have large aluminum front and rear castings connected to a steel encased structural battery pack creating a frame. The body will consist of steel interior body panels and stainless steel exterior panels to create the look and the frame. As per Elon’s comments the stainless panel will allow them to remove some interior body frame components but definitely not all. Some will simply be needed to structurally bridge between the flat exoskeleton panels and the frame. As per the patent. This hybrid design will marry the frame and semi structural body per Munro to create a great balance between weight and strength. For all those thinking but what about the galvanic corrosion. Teslas engineers are pros at that and no matter if the entire body was stainless, there are many connections that will need protection so they will be dealing with it anyway. If you expect to get a fully stainless body I think you will be disappointed.
 

anionic1

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No. It sounds like you have a misunderstanding of what the term "exoskeleton" means. Which is that the structural parts are around the perimeter of the structure, it doesn't imply the skeleton cannot be hollow, the inner layer is still part of the exoskeleton. The way the Cybertruck will gain strength to the exoskeleton is to have two layers in many areas with empty space in the middle. It's all exoskeleton even though some layers of the frame will be several inches inside the outer portion of the exoskeleton. What's key to the concept of it being an exoskeleton is the exoskeleton surrounds the passenger and cargo compartments. This will almost certainly be 100% stainless steel of varying hardness.

It's also important to note that all unibody vehicles could be loosely called "exoskeleton" but that Tesla is using the term in a purer manner because the body panels and inner panels will provide a much higher percentage of the chassis stiffness than in regular unibody construction. Because in typical unibody construction, the body panels and the rest of the upper body structure are used primarily to stiffen the under-chassis frame. The Cybertruck will also have an under-chassis frame but it will provide much less of total chassis stiffness, instead leaning much more heavily on the upper exoskeleton for most of the strength of the total structure. The upper body/exoskeleton in conjunction with the under-chassis will comprise the totality of the exoskeleton of the Cybertruck.




Not true at all. The most popular 30X series stainless steels can all be stamped into three-dimensional forms very nicely, even 3mm thick stainless. But it's a good assumption that many of the stampings might be a little thinner to shave weight where it is not needed (perhaps 2 mm). The thing that prevents stamping the entire exoskeleton is the cold rolling hardening process that will be used on the stainless that makes up the outermost layer (and probably some of the innermost layer in areas that are not stamped into 3D forms). The exterior layer is flat and angular because, once roll hardened sufficiently, it cannot be stamped. The non-hardened (or less hardened) stainless-steel stampings can be welded to the 3 mm thick cold-rolled exterior to create an even stronger structure and you can bet Tesla will choose an alloy that will remain corrosion resistant, even in the weld areas.

We have to wait for more info from Tesla or for the production version to be released to know more specifics about exactly which alloys and how much hardening is used in the outer panels (1/2 hard, 3/4 hard, full hard, etc.) and how the different areas are joined. On the latter point I'm expecting Tesla to rely heavily on welding with some use of threaded fasteners and glue joints. It's important to note that the windshield and roof glass will be an important part of the structural strength of the exoskeleton and this joint typically relies on high strength adhesives.

We live in exciting times for automotive enthusiasts!
So tell me why if you are Tesla would you make the inner portions of the exoskeleton that no one sees out of stainless that costs more than double typically. They probably aren’t welding those exterior panels on and my guess is they will use a structural adhesive that would take care of galvanic corrosion. Why make the stamped interior pieces out of stainless if no one sees them. I really doubt they will do that.
 
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