Turn bankrupt gas stations into supercharger locations

Sputter

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I just read an article that stated, with the coming recession caused by the coronavirus crisis, that many gas stations will go out of business. Were that true, I wonder if it would make economical sense for Tesla to buy up a bunch of these abandoned stations all across the nation, and convert them to supercharging stations? Maybe not buy the property as that would tie up a lot of capital, but maybe pick up a discounted lease on the land. Leave the monster gas tanks in the ground (ie, don't go to the expense of digging them up), just pump them dry and fill them with water, or something to displace the residual gas. (okay, okay...not environmental sound––I'm just throwing out some ideas to make these boarded up stations a viable solution by having supercharging stations in every town and city. Most of them have a canopy for a solar installation; each of them has toilets and it seems most of the junk inside could be ripped out, converted to waiting lounges. The bigger stations could become mini-Tesla service centers. What's not to like? What's wrong with this scenario? Finding a suitably small piece of property in any downtown area to utilize as a supercharging station is next to impossible. Is there another use for an abandoned gas station? Forgetting the cost of a supercharger, what does it cost Tesla to lease land in someone's big parking lot? Hmmmmmm......probably doesn't make sense economically. But still...........maybe Tesla could charge more per Kw to help pay for this convenience.

 

Sirfun

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Unfortunately, there's probably gonna be a lot more restaurants go under than gas stations. Probably a lot less expense in environmental cleanup too.
 

lukefrisbee

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Ahhh NO!
First, The gas stations that are going under in all likelihood have environmental clean-up issues that far outweigh the cost of the land.
Second. Very soon ANY PLACE Tesla wants to drop a charging station will donate the land...maybe "soon" isn't the right word... Yesterday maybe.
 

ajdelange

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The old "gas station" simply isn't viable any more. You can't make money selling gas and fixing flats. The margins are too low. That's why so much gas now is sold at "convenience stores". The gas pumps are there to attract you to the inside of the store which is where the money is made. An old gas station converted over to a convenience store with "fast" charging is a very appealing prospect to convenience store operators as charging takes longer and the customer is, therefore, captive longer than he would be were he buying gas. So yes, I think convenience stores will take on charging stations. One operator in my area converted his gas station to (non Tesla) charging and Tesla is building a SC in a WaWa parking lot nearby. I don't think, in most cases, Tesla owns the land where the SC is located. Think about where most of the ones you have used are. They are in shopping center parking lots, freeway rest stops, Sheetz, WaWa, QuickCheck lots etc. So yes, I do think that convenience store operators will be buying up or leasing these old gas stations, doing the remediation where required and converting to the convenience store model with, initially, charging and petrol sales. At least that's what I'm seeing now. Over time the mix of chargers/pumps will shift towards chargers.
 
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Sputter

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Good points and very likely you are correct. I live in Maryland. In the Silver Spring area, not far from where I live, the first gas station in the United States converted to all-electric chargers. I think the State of Maryland kicked in with a grant to set the station up as an experiment. And yes, I've filled up my Tesla at a Sheetz station as well as at a WaWa station. This proves your point––fueling, whether gas or electric is used to bring people inside to the convenience store/dining facility. Let's hope the trend continues.
 


lukefrisbee

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I have the Krystal ball right here (Krystal's is a fast food hamburger chain for you yankees).
I can easily see All food joints having super chargers.
And then I gave it 20 seconds of thought and I came to ONE realization.
Gas stations are needed and different for one reason, GASOLINE. So fuhgetaboudit. I was limiting myself and thinking inside the concept of fueling up at a fueling station like it had to be gasoline-station-like.
Superchargers will be any damn place that there is electricity and the landowner wants customers.Tesla superchargers will increase consumer traffic at convenience stores but with the times that are possible now fast food seems the right fit. Once the time frame drops to under 10 minutes it will go the convenience store route as well. Fast food joint will definitely be supercharger sites. Almost every one of em...
A further point with gasoline. ICE cars must stop for gasoline. they are forced to go where the drivers do not want to ever go, a gas station. Super chargers will completely eliminate stand alone fuel stations. When BEV's are the norm people will have a new level of convenience. They will be able to refuel wherever there is electricity. Not just at a stinkin gas station.
And the price to refuel will be even lower if Tesla plays the game well. The companies that put in Super chargers will not be allowed to make any serious money through the supercharger. The supercharger will support itself through bringing additional traffic to the business.
 

ajdelange

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I live in Maryland. In the Silver Spring area, not far from where I live, the first gas station in the United States converted to all-electric chargers.
That's the guy I was thinking of in No. 4. Wonder how he is faring.

Let's hope the trend continues.
I think it will. There is just one thing I'd like to see them add and that is an attendant who, when your car is finished charging, moves it (you put it in valet mode) to a parking spot in a designated area and sends you a text telling you where it is. This means you don't have to jump up in the middle of your dinner to move your car when it finishes charging to avoid idle fees.
 

ajdelange

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The companies that put in Super chargers will not be allowed to make any serious money through the supercharger. The supercharger will support itself through bringing additional traffic to the business.
I think you are confusing Super Chargers with Destination Chargers, The only company that installs or operates Super Chargers is Tesla and they operate them at 0 profit or a loss. The only benefits to the convenience store or turnpike authority are the rent they get for the land and the customer draw. A Destination Charger, OTOH, is a Tesla made HPWC (Level II) supplied by Tesla (used to be free - don't know if that's still the case) and installed by the business (which installation is, or was, paid for by Tesla), From that point on the business operates the charger. The vast majority of businesses offer free charging (the ones that try to collect charging fees wind up with "don't go here" comments on PlugShare) thus the only benefit to them is the customer draw but they pay for this in the cost of electricity.

If a business owner wants to make profit by selling charging then he must make an arrangement , as the Takoma Park guy did, with one of the other networks that is set up to allow this. The result is higher prices to the point that Tesla owners avoid these stations like the Corona virus. But there are other EVs out there that may be using them.

The only place I know where I can charge for less than what Tesla charges (other than at home) is on the Circuit Electriqe network in Quebec. It is owned by Hydro which is owned by the government and I have no idea what arrangements they make with the landowners.
 
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Sputter

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I have the Krystal ball right here (Krystal's is a fast food hamburger chain for you yankees).
I can easily see All food joints having super chargers.
And then I gave it 20 seconds of thought and I came to ONE realization.
Gas stations are needed and different for one reason, GASOLINE. So fuhgetaboudit. I was limiting myself and thinking inside the concept of fueling up at a fueling station like it had to be gasoline-station-like.
Superchargers will be any damn place that there is electricity and the landowner wants customers.Tesla superchargers will increase consumer traffic at convenience stores but with the times that are possible now fast food seems the right fit. Once the time frame drops to under 10 minutes it will go the convenience store route as well. Fast food joint will definitely be supercharger sites. Almost every one of em...
A further point with gasoline. ICE cars must stop for gasoline. they are forced to go where the drivers do not want to ever go, a gas station. Super chargers will completely eliminate stand alone fuel stations. When BEV's are the norm people will have a new level of convenience. They will be able to refuel wherever there is electricity. Not just at a stinkin gas station.
And the price to refuel will be even lower if Tesla plays the game well. The companies that put in Super chargers will not be allowed to make any serious money through the supercharger. The supercharger will support itself through bringing additional traffic to the business.
I think you missed the point of the original post....the posting was about utilizing the abandoned, boarded up, bankrupted gas stations and converting them to supercharging stations. (As a result of an anticipated recession.) The original posting did not state or refute the fact that gas stations will be needed fifty years from now. Your point about convenience stores and restaurants needing to have charging stations in every parking lot is acknowledged.
 

lukefrisbee

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I think you missed the point of the original post....the posting was about utilizing the abandoned, boarded up, bankrupted gas stations and converting them to supercharging stations. (As a result of an anticipated recession.) The original posting did not state or refute the fact that gas stations will be needed fifty years from now. Your point about convenience stores and restaurants needing to have charging stations in every parking lot is acknowledged.
Nope. I clearly stated that the alternatives far outweigh the conversion of toxic waste sites where nothing is available to do.
 


lukefrisbee

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I think you confusing Super Chargers with Destination Chargers, The only company that installs or operates Super Chargers is Tesla and they operate them at 0 profit or a loss. The only benefits to the convenience store or turnpike authority are the rent they get for the land and the customer draw. A Destination Charger, OTOH, is a Tesla made HPWC (Level II) supplied by Tesla (used to be free - don't know if that's still the case) and installed by the business (which installation is, or was, paid for by Tesla), From that point on the business operates the charger. The vast majority of businesses offer free charging (the ones that try to collect charging fees wind up with "don't go here" comments on PlugShare) thus the only benefit to them is the customer draw but they pay for this in the cost of electricity.

If a business owner wants to make profit by selling charging then he must make an arrangement , as the Takoma Park guy did, with one of the other networks that is set up to allow this. The result is higher prices to the point that Tesla owners avoid these stations like the Corona virus. But there are other EVs out there that may be using them.

The only place I know where I can charge for less than what Tesla charges (other than at home) is on the Circuit Electriqe network in Quebec. It is owned by Hydro which is owned by the government and I have no idea what arrangements they make with the landowners.
And just like the comment after this one. "Nope." (And yes as you did bring up further choices, and perhaps some yet not evolved in the market) BOTH will become prevalent. The choice will be one of the two. But expect one type of charger (Destination/free charger at business where the cost to recharge is easily is baked into the business model like hotels, and Disney, and the other is rent-producing like fast food Shopping malls).
Either one will be the way the market goes, AND NOT TO CONVERTING GAS STATIONS.
 

ajdelange

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But expect one type of charger (Destination/free charger at business where the cost to recharge is easily is baked into the business model like hotels, and Disney, and the other is rent-producing like fast food Shopping malls).
You seem to be under some misapprehension as to the nature and purpose of the Super Charging network. It still seems you don't appreciate the difference. The Destination Charger is located wherever a business owner wants to put one. A Super Charger is located where Tesla want's to put one, not where a business owner who wants to earn some rent money wants to put one. Tesla wants to put them where they will see lots of traffic to the point where they can claim that there is no problem getting from Geedunk to Podunk because there is a Super Charger at the convenience store in Squeedunk half way between the two. That's why they put them in Turnpike rest areas (Maryland House, Molly Pitcher, Joyce Kilmer) or at locations close to heavily travelled corridors (Paramus Tesla dealership on Rte 17, QuikCheck at Kingston Exit off Thruway, Brattlebo, Moosic...), The important factors are close to a traffic artery and access to a hefty electric supply.

Now there is a business that owns a piece of land in St Leonard d'Aston just off the TCH (Montreal to Quebec City). It rents to a McDonanlds, a Couche Tard and St. Hubert. I suppose you could call it a small "fast food shopping mall. If that guy called Tesla and offered to lease them a few parking slots they would probably jump and in fact did but it might well have been Tesla that contacted them as it is an ideal location for a SC, so ideal that Circuit Electrique has 4 terminals there too.

So the Super Chargers were originally a marketing tool to combat range anxiety and located in a way to minimize that. Another deterrent to purchase of a BEV is for the appartment/condo dweller who doesn't have a place to charge. This resulted in the installation of "urban" SCs which are smaller units and again, placed where they can serve the most people often in the parking garages of urban and suburban building complexes.

Destination chargers are found at wineries, hotels, ski hills, dairies, craft breweries, restaurants, B&B's, campgrounds, conference centers, schools, private businesses, golf courses - anywhere an operator wants to make life easier for his customers, employess or guests.

When you actually operate a Tesla you will come to understand all this better.
 

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lukefrisbee

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You seem to be under some misapprehension as to the nature and purpose of the Super Charging network. It still seems you don't appreciate the difference. The Destination Charger is located wherever a business owner wants to put one. A Super Charger is located where Tesla want's to put one, not where a business owner who wants to earn some rent money wants to put one. Tesla wants to put them where they will see lots of traffic to the point where they can claim that there is no problem getting from Geedunk to Podunk because there is a Super Charger at the convenience store in Squeedunk half way between the two. That's why they put them in Turnpike rest areas (Maryland House, Molly Pitcher, Joyce Kilmer) or at locations close to heavily travelled corridors (Paramus Tesla dealership on Rte 17, QuikCheck at Kingston Exit off Thruway, Brattlebo, Moosic...), The important factors are close to a traffic artery and access to a hefty electric supply.

Now there is a business that owns a piece of land in St Leonard d'Aston just off the TCH (Montreal to Quebec City). It rents to a McDonanlds, a Couche Tard and St. Hubert. I suppose you could call it a small "fast food shopping mall. If that guy called Tesla and offered to lease them a few parking slots they would probably jump and in fact did but it might well have been Tesla that contacted them as it is an ideal location for a SC, so ideal that Circuit Electrique has 4 terminals there too.

So the Super Chargers were originally a marketing tool to combat range anxiety and located in a way to minimize that. Another deterrent to purchase of a BEV is for the appartment/condo dweller who doesn't have a place to charge. This resulted in the installation of "urban" SCs which are smaller units and again, placed where they can serve the most people often in the parking garages of urban and suburban building complexes.

Destination chargers are found at wineries, hotels, ski hills, dairies, craft breweries, restaurants, B&B's, campgrounds, conference centers, schools, private businesses, golf courses - anywhere an operator wants to make life easier for his customers, employess or guests.

When you actually operate a Tesla you will come to understand all this better.
I do get your viewpoint. But now you are being too narrow in scope. Please consider there are more ways to skin a cat than those two.
Any one of a number of financial arrangements could result in where any type of tesla chargers of any type are placed.
My point was and still is
Gas Stations will NOT be a consideration for placing Tesla Chargers because drivers (eventually non-drivers because we will have FSD) will NEVER go to a gas station. Gas stations existed for the main reason of providing fuel. Gas stations were a necessary evil because of the way in which fuel was provided to cars. People HAD TO go to a gas station to get fuel. Given a choice people will prefer to "fuel up" at a more time convenient location where they can accomplish tasks while fueling, and NOT have to add to their errand list "get gas."
The easiest place to see refueling be an almost stand alone entity is rest centers on the interstates, but even then once refueling is added to such a site it will be valuable as a retail site and be developed. Gas stations will NOT be considered due to the residual pollution on the site from serving as a gas station.
 

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In my town the Sonic is well attended at lunchtime, and at all hours. This is a business model suited to our Covid pandemic times. SO, private enterprise and Tesla should adopt supercharger stations to provide take out menus! TESLA EATS / TREATS & COFFEE!

 

 
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