UP/DOWN mountains/steep hills - Tesla Semi will save considerable time and be much safer vs ICE semi tractors.

[firsttruck]

The Tesla Semi's uphill pass climbing ability and downward use of regen instead of physical brakes could save considerable time (uphill maintain speed, downhill no brake checks) and be much safer vs ICE semi tractors.


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June 2, 2021
CHP is trying to stop wildfires with big rig speed and brake check patrols
By Ashley
https://cdllife.com/2021/chp-is-trying-to-stop-wildfires-with-big-rig-speed-and-brake-check-patrols

Additionally, CHP shared a chart detailing some of the most infamous steep grades in the U.S.

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CHP reminds drivers about required brake check after runaway truck crashes
By Ashley - March 31, 2022
https://cdllife.com/2022/chp-reminds-drivers-about-required-brake-check-after-runaway-truck-crashes/

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The Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance (CVSA) has announced Aug. 21-27 as the dates for this year’s Brake Safety Week.
By The Trucker News Staff - June 7, 2022
https://www.thetrucker.com/trucking-news/the-nation/cvsa-sets-dates-for-brake-safety-week

.....
Brake Safety Week is an annual commercial motor vehicle brake-safety inspection, enforcement and education initiative conducted by law enforcement jurisdictions in Canada, Mexico and the U.S.

During Brake Safety Week, inspectors will conduct their usual North American Standard Level I and V Inspections and capture and report brake-related data to CVSA.

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Semi-truck fire near Merritt on Coquihalla The incident is affecting northbound traffic
Black Press Media Staff (Hope, B.C., Canada)
Nov. 8, 2022
https://www.hopestandard.com/news/semi-truck-fire-near-merritt-on-coquihalla/

According to a witness, another truck was rolled over at a brake check forcing transport trucks to check brakes on the highway.
A semi-truck caught fire on the Coquihalla south of Merritt closing one lane northbound just before 11 a.m.

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Aug 21, 2019
Brake Checks after Fires on I-80 Ramped up by CHP
Gold Run, Calif. – California Highway Patrol in the Gold Run area says it’s placing a greater emphasis on big rig brake checks after a series of fires along Interstate 80
Posted by The Brake Report | Aug 21, 2019
https://thebrakereport.com/chp-ramps-up-i-80-brake-checks-after-fires/

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April 22, 2022
Donner Summit Highway advisories:
* All trucks must also stop at the brake check area on westbound I-80 in Placer County just west of Nyack.
* According to Caltrans, Donner Summit rest stops in Nevada County are closed for snow removal on Friday morning.
Northern California storm: Roads clear, chain controls drop as snowstorm chilling down
Author: Vicente Vera Published: 7:25 AM PDT April 22, 2022
https://www.abc10.com/article/weath...ffic/103-e80b373a-8726-4b8d-80f6-f276c8258e3b

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A truck driver was found guilty in deadly crash after brake failure.
By Julian Mark
December 21, 2021
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12/21/prosecutors-brake-shoe-trophy-truck-driver/

crashed a semi-truck into cars stopped in traffic on a Colorado highway, causing a 28-car pileup that killed four people, injured six others and led to an explosion.

Central to the ensuing criminal trial was whether Aguilera-Mederos was responsible for a brake malfunction that caused to him to ultimately lose control of the vehicle. A jury in October found Aguilera-Mederos guilty on 27 counts, including vehicular homicide, and he was sentenced last week to 110 years in prison.

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Utah Highway Patrol to conduct brake check enforcement blitz in Park City
Park City has had numerous problems with “runaway” vehicles, mostly on SR 224.
This week, commercial vehicle inspectors are emphasizing the importance of brake systems by conducting inspections and removing vehicles found to have out-of-service brake-related violations.
By TownLift - Park City Utah News
Aug 24, 2021
https://townlift.com/2021/08/highwa...eck-enforcement-blitz-in-park-city-august-26/

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Commercial trailer catches fire near Castlegar at the brake check.
Many motorist have had their brakes overheat as they’ve travelled down from the Paulson Summit in the past.
By Connor Trembley ( Paulson Summit, British Columbia, Canada)
Oct. 27, 2020
https://www.castlegarnews.com/news/...ing-traffic-on-highway-3-due-to-trailer-fire/

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[Sirfun]

Regen is Awesome.

An interesting thing happened on a recent vacation. We drove our Plug-in Hybrid Chrysler Pacifica up to Dante's View in Death Valley, which is at 5485' elevation. We started our drive down to the hotel in Furnace Creek which is below sea level at -175' elevation, with virtually no energy and 0 miles range in the battery. Driving downhill, the van uses the electric motor to regenerate energy into the battery. Well, the drive was 25 miles with 5,660' of elevation loss. As my wife was driving, we were all interested, watching the gauges showing state of charge and miles of range climbing at every downhill. At times, she was driving uphill and slightly loosing range. BUT, as we pulled into the hotel parking lot, after the 25-mile drive, the van had 45% charge and 16 miles of range! Basically free energy. I will never buy another vehicle that isn't at least a hybrid again. In addition to getting all those miles of free driving you also are NOT using the brakes or transmission on all those downhills.

In the 500 mile trip the Semi drove recently, there's a major mountain pass that was driven over called The Grapevine on the chart Tesla had which shows SOC and elevation at different locations along the way. Notice how the range actually goes up while the Semi covered several miles on the downhill. All that ICE vehicles can do is decrease usage of fuel. They have no way to gain fuel while driving.
REGEN IS AWESOME!!!

 

[Sirfun]

Here are some photos of where my story takes place in Death Valley. And the drive we took.

Dante's view lookout is at 5485' above Sea Level. The Valley floor in these photos is about -175 below Sea Level.

 

[Sirfun]

I'm also curious if part of the reason/benefits of having 3 motors on the Semi is that those extra 2 motors are regenerating more power back into the battery pack, than just one motor.

 

[AxelR]

On the Rivian forum, some complain/mention that the regen is so strong on such a heavy vehicle that it actually can be dangerous…

 

[Crissa]

I'm also curious if part of the reason/benefits of having 3 motors on the Semi is that those extra 2 motors are regenerating more power back into the battery pack, than just one motor.

Regen is capped by recharge rate. This doesn't happen in normal usage with a motorcycle or car, because the weight of the vehicle is limited.

But it'll totally get capped out on a big rig.

On the Rivian forum, some complain/mention that the regen is so strong on such a heavy vehicle that it actually can be dangerous…

Like engine braking, regen can totally stop the vehicle. It totally can cause the wheels to lose grip - I've done this in my Mazda with engine braking and I've done it with the weak regen on my Zero.

Unlike engine braking, regen can be computer controlled for its intensity, like traction control. I believe this is how Tesla handles it, automagically. My Zero, on the other hand, only allows regen to a set percent I can activate or deactivate, with multiple drive modes at different regen settings that I can shift into while riding.

Every vehicle is different, though. Check your manufacturer's recommendations.

-Crissa

 

[AxelR]

@Crissa i couldn’t agree more. I was only mentioning it as it’s been brought up a few times. We haven’t gotten our Rivian R1S yet, so no personal experience with it (only almost 4 years since preordering). Debating on keeping the Raptor until we can get our hands on the CT. I find the regen on our Tesla very easy to live with.

 

[Crissa]

I personally prefer blended braking regen, where the intensity of regen is applied to the braking system, with friction braking only at the end of the travel; I think Honda does this with their hybrids, and Porche does something similar in the Taycan.

Anything to make the pedals - both the accelerator and brake - less touchy. Smooth inputs always.

On my Zero, I usually have full regen (which isn't actually full, but all it'll let me have) activate with the brake lights; which lets me have a coasting mode and a 'downshift' to slow down, without using friction braking. It also has two other modes: Sport, which has full power and regen on via the throttle but no regen with the brakes; and Eco, which has low power and regen on throttle and low regen with braking. Sport is set for trail braking while Eco is perfect for wet conditions. You can probably guess from their names which is more efficient for range ^-^

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

Regen is capped by recharge rate. This doesn't happen in normal usage with a motorcycle or car, because the weight of the vehicle is limited.

But it'll totally get capped out on a big rig.


Like engine braking, regen can totally stop the vehicle. It totally can cause the wheels to lose grip - I've done this in my Mazda with engine braking and I've done it with the weak regen on my Zero.

Unlike engine braking, regen can be computer controlled for its intensity, like traction control. I believe this is how Tesla handles it, automagically. My Zero, on the other hand, only allows regen to a set percent I can activate or deactivate, with multiple drive modes at different regen settings that I can shift into while riding.
....

Sometime in the future we might actual have chargers near top of high hills/mountains or plateaus/mesas. Especially likely they will exist on some plateaus/mesas. An electric semi with regen capability, the driver or software probably needs to ensure it does not get charged to a too high state of charge not to protect from battery degradation but now for concern about regen not working.

When an electric semi with regen capability is at the top of a high hill/mountain or plateau/mesa it might important that regen will be available for entire down slope part of route. This means the battery must have energy space available for the incoming regen energy.

The the route planning software for the Electric semi with regen capability will need to calculate energy usage, elevation change, winds to ensure energy stored is not too low at trip start but it is also not too high that regen would be disabled.

 

[Sirfun]

Sometime in the future we might actual have chargers near top of high hills/mountains or plateaus/mesas. Especially likely they will exist on some plateaus/mesas. An electric semi with regen capability, the driver or software probably needs to ensure it does not charged to a too high state of charge not to protect from battery degradation but now for concern about regen working.

When an electric semi with regen capability is at the top of a high hill/mountain or plateau/mesa it might important that regen will be available for entire down slope part of route. This means the battery must have energy space available for the incoming regen energy.

The the route planning software for the Electric semi with regen capability will need to calculate energy usage, elevation change, winds to ensure energy stored is not too low at trip start but it is also not too high that regen would be disabled.

I'm sorry but putting charging facilities on top of any hill is DUMB. I can't begin to imagine Tesla would ever do anything that dumb. Maybe there could be a home, hotel or some other destination charger on top of a mountain but anyone with any knowledge of how EVs work would know better than to top off before going downhill. You charge before you go up the mountain. Knowing that your EV will use more energy going uphill, than it can regen going back down.

 

[Crissa]

I'm sorry but putting charging facilities on top of any hill is DUMB. I can't begin to imagine Tesla would ever do anything that dumb. Maybe there could be a home, hotel or some other destination charger on top of a mountain but anyone with any knowledge of how EVs work would know better than to top off before going downhill. You charge before you go up the mountain. Knowing that your EV will use more energy going uphill, than it can regen going back down.

It would be for bidirectional charging. Like, what if you overestimated how much charge you'd use going up the hill? You could have some charge drawn off and trade it for credits later on when you need it to go up another hill.

-Crissa

 

[Bill906]

Not being able to regen because your battery is fully charged could be an issue, but it’s a pretty low probability and easily fixed by just using the mechanical brakes in the unlikely event that it happens. But if it is determined a better answer is needed, and the issue is big enough to warrant the extra cost, the industrial world already has the technology. If an AC motor controlled by a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) needs to be slowed down quickly in the industrial world there are a couple of options:

• Install a mechanical brake on the machine
• Install a device in the inverter that will send the excess power to a large power resistor to convert the electrical power into heat.
• Use a regenerative VFD. (VFD’s have two main parts. A converter that converts AC line power to DC. Then an inverter that converts that DC power to variable AC. Most VFD’s have simple diode converters that can only work one way. But a regenerative VFD has a bidiredtional converter that can take or give power to the AC line depending on if the Machine is “motoring” or “Regenerating”).

If it’s determined it’s needed, the use of a power resistor to dump the excess energy off as heat might be an option. It’s simple, relatively cheap but not very efficient. I think I’d heard one EV manufacturer (I think it might have been Porsche) that has a system to bleed off excess energy to a resistor.

I believe that some time in the future (not sure how far) brake systems will be removed from EV’s and all braking will be done by the motors. The resistor feature (often referred to as dynamic braking in the industrial world) I describe would be required to guarantee the power could be taken from the motors when the battery couldn’t.

I’m sure people will start arguing that won’t be safe. My counter argument is it’s currently used in the industrial world where safety is an issue. Running machines with guards around them cannot run if the guard is removed. If the guard is removed while the machine is running, the machine MUST stop in x seconds. Where x is usually defined as the least amount of time it would take a human to get from the guard to the moving equipment.

@Crissa I like the idea of negative charging at a charging station. Not sure it will happen, but it’s an interesting thought.

Sorry for the novel. Not sure why I‘m so talkative all of the sudden.

 

[firsttruck]

Not being able to regen because your battery is fully charged could be an issue, but it’s a pretty low probability and easily fixed by just using the mechanical brakes in the unlikely event that it happens.
....

The original problem that was supposed to be solved was mechanical brakes on steep downgrade could burnup and fail to stop the semi & trailer.

.....
If it’s determined it’s needed, the use of a power resistor to dump the excess energy off as heat might be an option. It’s simple, relatively cheap but not very efficient. I think I’d heard one EV manufacturer (I think it might have been Porsche) that has a system to bleed off excess energy to a resistor.

I believe that some time in the future (not sure how far) brake systems will be removed from EV’s and all braking will be done by the motors. The resistor feature (often referred to as dynamic braking in the industrial world) I describe would be required to guarantee the power could be taken from the motors when the battery couldn’t.

I’m sure people will start arguing that won’t be safe. My counter argument is it’s currently used in the industrial world where safety is an issue. Running machines with guards around them cannot run if the guard is removed. If the guard is removed while the machine is running, the machine MUST stop in x seconds. Where x is usually defined as the least amount of time it would take a human to get from the guard to the moving equipment.

Now that is a interesting idea.

Yeah, could put a rectangular box around the resister heater, in front side of the box a hole for air intake, on the back side of the box a hole connected to some polished chrome tubing that runs vertically up both back side corners of the cab with curved polished chrome outlets at the top of the pipes for hot air to come out.

Hmmmm, something is missing.

Oh yeah, the back side of the box could have a fan and an injector for some stuff ( colored black or white or rainbow, nothing dangerous of course, protect the lungs, no really small particles

Then the Tesla truckers when they are blasting past the ICE ( not the frozen kind) truckers on both the steep upgrade and the downgrade the Tesla truckers can roll ???? on ?????. Might also be useful for putting out grass fires along side of highway that was started by ICE trucks or when passing ICE pickup trucks

Might increase sales of Tesla Semis once ICE trucks find out how much more efficient they could be

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