V4 Superchargers Rated at 615 kW — Cybertruck will be fastest charging EV on the road.

Gurule92

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So the non-charger, back end boxes are limited to 250kw? That's probably an easy upgrade right? When the time comes
 

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New v4 Chargers are out there now.

The basic math: 1000v @ 615A = 615 kW. I think this means 500v vehicles will top off at 307 kW.

A charge rate of 615 kW crushes any other EV out there. Particularly since Cybertruck is likely more efficient than competitors.

Interesting thing is these were spotted in Europe.



Looks like the ones installed so far are limited to 250 kW after all. WTF.

1678917133279.png


The first post has this, which is what you wrote, as the label on the stall itself:

Tesla Cybertruck V4 Superchargers Rated at 615 kW — Cybertruck will be fastest charging EV on the road. 1678968529183


According to that you would be right with 615kW (depending on the power factor).
I also note that the input on the other label is 575kW, but output is limited to 250kW, (but 315kVA).

Overall, the limitation would be temperature controlled, and modulated according to whole site conditions. But the charger itself may well be more capable than the Model 3/Y max charge rate, so the CT most likely will make better use of the v4 charger anyway and even a 100kW or more boost will suffice to make the charging considerably faster.
 

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My two cents (this has already been explained well by JBee's post #28 above).

The first label (below) shown in this thread start, shows voltage ratings of 0-500V, which makes sense for 250KW because the math right now works out for Teslas currently on the road with approximately 390V battery voltage (390V x 631A = 246 Kilowatts). Because the charge voltage is actually a little higher than quiescent battery voltage, a charge voltage of about 396V would equate to 250 Kilowatts exactly. Disclaimer: I don't know the exact battery voltage, but I am referencing what Sandy Munro and the late Jack Rickard had measured or cited in their Tesla Model 3 battery teardown videos.

Tesla Cybertruck V4 Superchargers Rated at 615 kW — Cybertruck will be fastest charging EV on the road. 1678972092134



But the second label in this thread (below) has different voltages of 1000V, so if that one is on the output charging stall, we can expect (up to) 615KW from that specification:

Tesla Cybertruck V4 Superchargers Rated at 615 kW — Cybertruck will be fastest charging EV on the road. 1678972618019


Tesla's presented math and actuation of performance are usually quite accurate. It is still early yet in the V4 charger rollouts, so we don't know if there will be any variations for certain locations.

I wouldn't get too excited until we have a chance to actually watch a Cybertruck charge.

- ÆCIII
 
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The huge pack (and hopefully better chemistry) should make a much flatter charging curve. Likely as important as the faster burst speed at the beginning of the charge.

A Model Y might charge at 250 kW for 5 minutes or less where the Cybertruck should charge at that speed for twice as long and taper slower.

As @JBee and @ÆCIII point out, the newer chargers should better support that even without 1000v.
 


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The huge pack (and hopefully better chemistry) should make a much flatter charging curve. Likely as important as the faster burst speed at the beginning of the charge.

A Model Y might charge at 250 kW for 5 minutes or less where the Cybertruck should charge at that speed for twice as long and taper slower.

As @JBee and @ÆCIII point out, the newer chargers should better support that even without 1000v.
Another thing to consider is that a larger pack and better thermally performing cells, along with a better HVAC (like the MS Plaid) will mean that a CT can hold a higher rate of charge, even at just 250kW for a longer period of time than a M3/Y, meaning comparably shorter charging stops.

Another place 1000V helps reduce cost, is that when a charging station is connected to a HV powerline, the transformer and cables they use can be smaller size, or more powerful, for the same cost. I'm also not sure if 250kW on a M3 is a limit imposed by the M3 batteries, or by the charger itself. If it's the charger, it might be the case that a V4 charger might do faster M3 charging after and update and testing.
 

cvalue13

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Isn't Netherlands CCS. Isn't CCS limited to 200 amps....
I have some vague (mis?)memory that the Netherlands in particular has the up to 350v version - don’t remember if that’s the, like, next-gen CCS or some other difference.

I tried to quick google max amperage if CCS generally, and by coincidence (?) the first hit is a PPT lecture presentation out of the Netherlands’ Delft University of Technology that states:

“Maximum voltage and current ratings:
In general, CCS charger can deliver up to 350 Amps at a voltage of between 200 to 1000V giving a maximum power output of 350 kW.”

This company in CA purports to have CCS chargers at 350A, apparently geared more towards fleet.

EA’s “hyper-fast” chargers (let the EA jokes begin!) have 350kw (if the adjacent plug isn’t being used) and I think are like 450 or 500A?
 

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If I'm remembering correctly. I think out of spec did a charger video for atlis, in which kyle mentions that telsa pretty much always pumps more than what is rated but they temp control their chargers and dont have any issues.

I could be totally making that up **like MDR**

**edit**
 

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If I'm remembering correctly. I think out of spec did a charger video for atlis, in which kyle mentions that telsa pretty much always pumps more than what is rated but they temp control their chargers and dont have any issues.

I could be totally making that up **like MDR**

**edit**
The plat ratings are for a specific temperature and duration; the ratings are usually for continuous use.

But all this stuff is curves, so you you can pump a higher amperage for a shorter period at such and such a temperature.

This is why when you look up amperage ratings for wires, they'll have the distance you're running the line, as well. Or why your 30a beaker is supposed to only run 80% of 30a continuously.

If you know the distance, the ambient temperature, you can boost or lower your amperage based upon what the situation can carry - and Tesla does this, since the batteries also can only take so much amperage for so long.

It's a mess of math that we use a bunch of rules of thumbs for but you can always pull back another layer and find yet another function to apply to the system.

(This is why I didn't get into Electrical Engineering despite having it being what I took as my vocational in high school...)

-Crissa
 


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New v4 Chargers are out there now.

The basic math: 1000v @ 615A = 615 kW. I think this means 500v vehicles will top off at 307 kW.

A charge rate of 615 kW crushes any other EV out there. Particularly since Cybertruck is likely more efficient than competitors.

Interesting thing is these were spotted in Europe.



Looks like the ones installed so far are limited to 250 kW after all. WTF.

1678917133279.png


Maybe someone can educate me. Using a basic amp/wire calculator the amperage ratings that high on a 1000V system would require the cross sectional area of a cable required to handle 615 amps to be about 3 cm. Thats over an inch for one conductor. How can that even work for normal human use. I heard they use cooling and may get away with smaller cable sizes. I have handled stranded cable in large sizes and its crazy thick and awkward. Is the magic in the cooling and somehow they are able to downsize the cable based on cooling and safety measures that protect users from the cables melting?

Tesla Cybertruck V4 Superchargers Rated at 615 kW — Cybertruck will be fastest charging EV on the road. 1679355442316
 

anionic1

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The plat ratings are for a specific temperature and duration; the ratings are usually for continuous use.

But all this stuff is curves, so you you can pump a higher amperage for a shorter period at such and such a temperature.

This is why when you look up amperage ratings for wires, they'll have the distance you're running the line, as well. Or why your 30a beaker is supposed to only run 80% of 30a continuously.

If you know the distance, the ambient temperature, you can boost or lower your amperage based upon what the situation can carry - and Tesla does this, since the batteries also can only take so much amperage for so long.

It's a mess of math that we use a bunch of rules of thumbs for but you can always pull back another layer and find yet another function to apply to the system.

(This is why I didn't get into Electrical Engineering despite having it being what I took as my vocational in high school...)

-Crissa
I am fairly certain that distance has more to do with voltage drop than amperage capacity.
 
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Maybe someone can educate me. Using a basic amp/wire calculator the amperage ratings that high on a 1000V system would require the cross sectional area of a cable required to handle 615 amps to be about 3 cm. Thats over an inch for one conductor. How can that even work for normal human use. I heard they use cooling and may get away with smaller cable sizes. I have handled stranded cable in large sizes and its crazy thick and awkward. Is the magic in the cooling and somehow they are able to downsize the cable based on cooling and safety measures that protect users from the cables melting?

1679355442316.png
What they are doing is absolutely bonkers. They are using stranded cable and pushing fluid through the cable so the water flows between the strands of wiring. The surface area for heat exchange is insane. The cable is thinner than the cable they use for v3.

This is very likely a big part of why we haven’t seen a lot of the v4 chargers in the wild. Even these ones it’s not even clear if they are using the new high voltage interface.
 

Crissa

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Maybe someone can educate me. Using a basic amp/wire calculator the amperage ratings that high on a 1000V system would require the cross sectional area of a cable required to handle 615 amps to be about 3 cm. Thats over an inch for one conductor. How can that even work for normal human use. I heard they use cooling and may get away with smaller cable sizes. I have handled stranded cable in large sizes and its crazy thick and awkward. Is the magic in the cooling and somehow they are able to downsize the cable based on cooling and safety measures that protect users from the cables melting?

1679355442316.png
Because they're not just stranded copper. They're liquid-immersed conductors with a pair of electrically isolated cooling systems.

Tesla Cybertruck V4 Superchargers Rated at 615 kW — Cybertruck will be fastest charging EV on the road. cswjmvnb5e3a1


So they aren't limited to radiant cooling.

-Crissa
 
 




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