Vehicle to Home (Ford Figured it Out)

Curacars

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I thought about hedging my bet with CT, but they said you'd need to order fall of '21, and that would force a decision long before the CT is ready for order (I think).

(And that may be a strategic move on Fords part)
Would you have to pay the full amount of the F150 in the fall of 21? If not, you can keep the hedge and by the time you get the 2nd car, decide which one to keep and sell the other one. With the amount of reservations for the CT it won't be hard to sell it for hardly any loss to someone a lot further down the list. I guess the same will with the lightning.
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jhciv

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Do you understand how big the truck's battery is?

-Crissa
People have no conception of just how enormous long range EV batteries are. My house is net-zero annual energy use thanks to solar. It makes zero sense for me to install a comparatively small home battery backup when (1) there's a 75kWh battery pack sitting doing nothing; (2) I only have power outages 0-2 times a year and they only last a few hours; and (3) we have net metering, so I would get no financial benefit for adding a powerwall.

For me, personally, I would not use it for grid load leveling because I don't want the added cycles on the car battery. But it would be great for emergency backup, like Ford is advertising. Please add this to the Cybertruck, Tesla!!
 

Crissa

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But it would be great for emergency backup, like Ford is advertising. Please add this to the Cybertruck, Tesla!!
Well, the standard feature Ford advertised is already in the Cybertruck. A few devices is just run an extension cord.

All they would need to power more, would be a Powerwall-style EVSE that a Tesla plugs into. It's not even new hardware, really, just putting components they already have together.

-Crissa
 

jhciv

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Trying to run extension cords all over the house is quite different then automatic, software-controlled whole-home power backup, but great point that they already have the HW pieces from Tesla energy. Would still need to develop the mobile app and in-vehicle software functionality. Fingers crossed.
 

repoman

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Tesla Cybertruck does not have (or at least has not announced) anything close to what Ford is talking about here. Plugging your truck into the charging cable and having the power go both ways is different then plugging your Cybertruck into the 50-30amp or 110 outlet to get power. NO Tesla to date has the ability for power to go both ways. Not even with a software update. Sandy Munro has torn the power systems from most if not all the current Teslas and the hardware does not support it. For Tesla to do what Ford is doing on the Cybertruck (and I hope they do) lots of changes will need to be added just in the truck. Also, a new video is out from Ford and they get to 3 days of power based on 30 KW/H used per day for a total of 90 KW/H. So for 3 days 90KW/H. I just wonder just how big their battery really is.
 

Crissa

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NO Tesla to date has the ability for power to go both ways.
This is incorrect: The Roadster had this capability. Since EVs were new, and the nature of who bought premiere vehicles, the feature went unused, according to Elon.

Tesla allows DC charging. By its nature, DC charging means a direct link to the battery. That should allow bi-directional current flow. So that would just be a software update, at least on the car side.

-Crissa
 

HaulingAss

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Trying to run extension cords all over the house is quite different then automatic, software-controlled whole-home power backup, but great point that they already have the HW pieces from Tesla energy. Would still need to develop the mobile app and in-vehicle software functionality. Fingers crossed.
Unless Ford suddenly become proficient at software development, I wouldn't want my home controlled by Ford software. And if it's not Ford software, well, you could do that with the Cybertruck too.

Have you been paying attention to how flaky the Mach-e software is? The phone app, the car's software and the charging interface? A complete and utter disaster that has no place in my life.
 

firsttruck

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Tesla Cybertruck does not have (or at least has not announced) anything close to what Ford is talking about here. Plugging your truck into the charging cable and having the power go both ways is different then plugging your Cybertruck into the 50-30amp or 110 outlet to get power. NO Tesla to date has the ability for power to go both ways. Not even with a software update. Sandy Munro has torn the power systems from most if not all the current Teslas and the hardware does not support it. For Tesla to do what Ford is doing on the Cybertruck (and I hope they do) lots of changes will need to be added just in the truck. Also, a new video is out from Ford and they get to 3 days of power based on 30 KW/H used per day for a total of 90 KW/H. So for 3 days 90KW/H. I just wonder just how big their battery really is.
The Cybertruck reveal said Cybertruck bed would have some 110/120V outlets but it would also have a 220/240V outlet with enough amperage to run a welder. That is not some cheap 200W 110V inverter.

So if your parking space or garage is close to the kitchen , in a power outage emergency, you could run an extension cord to power your refrigerator/freezer for a several of days (save $100s food from spoiling) and a few other critical things and all with the standard lowest Cybertruck. With Ford this much power might not be standard on 39K model but be a costly option.
 
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CyberT

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Whew, I just read all 4 pages and noticed something that no one has pointed out. For the Lightning to provide the V2H, the truck needs to "BE" at the house and plugged in.

What happens when you are at work or on a road trip with the truck and a power outage happens while other family members are home. Maybe you have someone who is elderly at home during a heatwave or like someone mentioned earlier $100's of food in the refrigerator.

I believe this is what Elon was talking about on battery day when someone asked about V2G. Having the vehicle able to power the house sounds like a really great idea and it may definitely work in certain situations. But adding a permanent home battery system is the only way to guaranty that your home will always have the power you need regardless of where your truck may be.
 

Luke42

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For me, personally, I would not use it for grid load leveling because I don't want the added cycles on the car battery. But it would be great for emergency backup, like Ford is advertising. Please add this to the Cybertruck, Tesla!!
Vehicle to vehicle charging would be useful, as well.

That way, you can rescue a friend when they run out of battery in a remote place.

V2V FTW!
 

jhciv

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Vehicle to vehicle charging would be useful, as well.

That way, you can rescue a friend when they run out of battery in a remote place.

V2V FTW!
FWIW, you should already be able to do that easily by plugging another vehicle into the 240V plug in the CT bed.
 

Bill906

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Tesla allows DC charging. By its nature, DC charging means a direct link to the battery. That should allow bi-directional current flow. So that would just be a software update, at least on the car side.
I do not know, nor have I seen any circuit diagrams for the DC fast charging circuit on a Tesla or any other EV for that matter. It might be a direct connection to the battery, but I suspect there is some control circuitry in the DC fast charging circuit also. My reason for believing this is I understand you can plug your vehicle into a fast charger and tell the car how much charge you want. The way I understand it (please correct me if I’m wrong) the car will stop the charge process once the level is reached. Now there are a few ways to do this, and I don’t know which if any are used, but one way would be a simple relay, which would allow for bidirectional power flow (if the car closed the relay contacts). Or they could use a power semiconductor device. Depending on which device is used, it may or may not allow for bidirectional power flow.
Another possibility is that it is in fact a direct connection to the battery, and the car communicates with the charger when it’s at the charge threshold and tells the charger to end the charging. Again, I don’t know how it works. Only speculating.
 

ajdelange

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I do not know, nor have I seen any circuit diagrams for the DC fast charging circuit on a Tesla or any other EV for that matter. It might be a direct connection to the battery, but I suspect there is some control circuitry in the DC fast charging circuit also.
Yes, there is something. A couple of explosive fuses and a couple of contactors but I don't know where they go in the circuit.

My reason for believing this is I understand you can plug your vehicle into a fast charger and tell the car how much charge you want. The way I understand it (please correct me if I’m wrong) the car will stop the charge process once the level is reached.
I can't tell you you are wrong nor can I assure you that what I am about to explain is right because, like you, I have never seen any circuit diagrams.


Now there are a few ways to do this, and I don’t know which if any are used, but one way would be a simple relay, which would allow for bidirectional power flow (if the car closed the relay contacts). Or they could use a power semiconductor device.
Common sense, what we know about power supplies in general and what we know about the CharIn (Tesla is a member) standards strongly suggest that the SC is a voltage regulated power supply. The car, we assume, can tell the charger what voltage it wants to see. If it tells the charger to regulate to the vehicle's open circuit battery voltage then clearly no current will flow. But if it tells it to go to 1 volt higher than the battery voltage then current equal to 1 divided by the interconnection resistance will flow. Thus the car can control the charging current by controlling the charger voltage. This is certainly done in a feedback loop with command voltage being proportional to the error between desired and actual charging current. When the battery OC voltage corresponds to the desired SOC the computer simply ramps the command current down to 0 which results in the charger voltage going to the battery OC voltage as at the start (except that the voltage is now higher because the battery is charged).

Depending on which device is used, it may or may not allow for bidirectional power flow.
. The "charger" in this context is a bridge made up of semiconductor switches. The voltage it produces depends on how much of the time those switches are closed during a cycle. Such a bridge is equally capable of converting DC from the battery to current at the mains frequency. This is done by changing the sequence in which the switches are operated (this all happens at 10's of kHz) but as with AC to DC conversion the amount of current delivered to the mains can be controlled by changing the switch closure duty cycle. This is how V2H system, such as the Wallbox Quasar, is probably built. This thought is supported by the fact that the Quasar requires a CCS (or CHAdeMo) connector meaning that DC pins are used and implying that the output of the bridge is connected directly to the battery. This is one of the most important thing about the Quasar. It is a DC charger. It is not the usual L2 EVSE we have on our garage wall which is only a switch that turns on mains power to the charger mounted in the car. With EVSE of that type the rectifier is in the charger in the car. With the Quasar, and probably the Ford system too, the rectifier is in the wall box.

The electronics is the simple part. The algorithms that clock the bridge and those that insure that regulate mains voltage, frequency and phase produced by the inverter match the mains and, most important, isolate the system from the mains in the case of a power outage is where the challenges lie. The Quasar is supposed to have V2G capability as well. This means that if the car can produce 7 kW and the demand (from the house) is only 2 that 5 can be sent to the grid. This obviously complicates things because clearly the grid now has to have some control over the car (tell it when it wants energy) and at the same time the homeowner, if he be possessed of any common sense, won't want to send his valuable fuel to the utility and thus must be able to tell the system this.

Evidently the Ford system is something like the Quasar. Of course i don't know but I'll wager more than one beer that it's pretty close to what I have described above.
 
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