Vehicle to Home (Ford Figured it Out)

[Crissa]

What happens when you are at work or on a road trip...

...Then either I don't need the extra power that's in the truck battery, because I'm not there consuming it, and if it's that important, there's a smaller backup battery.

Houses use the most power when you're at home, you know.

I do not know, nor have I seen any circuit diagrams for the DC fast charging circuit on a Tesla or any other EV for that matter. It might be a direct connection to the battery, but I suspect there is some control circuitry in the DC fast charging circuit also.

High amperage circuitry is super-expensive, which is why you wouldn't add any that you didn't need in the charging circuit. With DC charging, the car provides some information to the station, like voltage level and whether it's ready to charge or stop, but the station does all the work pushing the voltage. That's the point of a DC charging connection.

Tesla does do some weird things by repurposing the conductors in the charging cable as need be, but aside from that, the connection to the battery is as direct as possible to reduce heat-loss.

-Crissa

Sponsored

 

[CyberT]

...Then either I don't need the extra power that's in the truck battery, because I'm not there consuming it, and if it's that important, there's a smaller backup battery.

Houses use the most power when you're at home, you know.


-Crissa

What I was saying is if the truck was not parked at your home and a power outage happened, then the food would spoil, or other family members at home wouldn't have access to electricity. It's best to have at least a small home battery to instantly switch over to in the event of a power outage and then use the truck as an additional power reserve if the outage is for an extended amount of time.

 

[Crissa]

What I was saying is if the truck was not parked at your home and a power outage happened, then the food would spoil, or other family members at home wouldn't have access to electricity. It's best to have at least a small home battery...

...Which is entirely perpendicular to the fact that you can use the battery in the truck, isn't it?

-Crissa

 

[Sirfun]

What I was saying is if the truck was not parked at your home and a power outage happened, then the food would spoil, or other family members at home wouldn't have access to electricity. It's best to have at least a small home battery to instantly switch over to in the event of a power outage and then use the truck as an additional power reserve if the outage is for an extended amount of time.

I'm hoping this is why Tesla is requiring all solar installations to have Powerwalls with the panels. Possibly Elon was thinking ahead, so that we could not need net metering and all our Cybertrucks won't be feed by the grid. Plus, with the Powerwall installation all the switchgear is in place to make it easy to have the Cybertruck do V2H.

 

[ajdelange]

What I was saying is if the truck was not parked at your home and a power outage happened, then the food would spoil, or other family members at home wouldn't have access to electricity. It's best to have at least a small home battery to instantly switch over to in the event of a power outage and then use the truck as an additional power reserve if the outage is for an extended amount of time.

IMO trucks are for transportation and hauling. Backup systems are for backing up.

I'm hoping this is why Tesla is requiring all solar installations to have Powerwalls with the panels.

Not that I am sure that it makes much, or any difference, but it's the other way 'round. He is requiring that all installations to which he will sell Powerwalls must have solar. What's not clear is whether the PV panels have to be Tesla panels or if any panels will do.

Possibly Elon was thinking ahead, so that we could not need net metering and all our Cybertrucks won't be feed by the grid. Plus, with the Powerwall installation all the switchgear is in place to make it easy to have the Cybertruck do V2H.

I have no idea what he is thinking here other than that this is an obvious way to promote the sale of Tesla PV products. Powerwalls are in short supply now and we all know what the reason is: batteries.

You do not need a Powerwall in order to charge your BEV exclusively from the sun. It is a little inconvenient but it's a simple matter of only charging your BEV when your PV system is providing all your house needs plus whatever power level you want to charge at. For example, at the moment the house is drawing 6 kW (one A/C running) and the panels are producing 21 kW. The car takes 11.5 kW at maximum charge rate. Added to the 6 that's 17.5 total and the panels are producing 3.5 kW more than that to send to my neighbors so I could charge at max rate right now with out taking anything from the utility. What the Powerwalls add is automating the process. I could charge any time as long as the Powerwalls were full enough to replenish the car.

 

[Crissa]

You lose a little bit of energy every time you transfer it, so it's best to charge while the solar panels are producing, but battery to battery is a second best ^-^

-Crissa

 

[Sirfun]

IMO trucks are for transportation and hauling. Backup systems are for backing up.
Not that I am sure that it makes much, or any difference, but it's the other way 'round. He is requiring that all installations to which he will sell Powerwalls must have solar. What's not clear is whether the PV panels have to be Tesla panels or if any panels will do.

I have no idea what he is thinking here other than that this is an obvious way to promote the sale of Tesla PV products. Powerwalls are in short supply now and we all know what the reason is: batteries.

You do not need a Powerwall in order to charge your BEV exclusively from the sun. It is a little inconvenient but it's a simple matter of only charging your BEV when your PV system is providing all your house needs plus whatever power level you want to charge at. For example, at the moment the house is drawing 6 kW (one A/C running) and the panels are producing 21 kW. The car takes 11.5 kW at maximum charge rate. Added to the 6 that's 17.5 total and the panels are producing 3.5 kW more than that to send to my neighbors so I could charge at max rate right now with out taking anything from the utility. What the Powerwalls add is automating the process. I could charge any time as long as the Powerwalls were full enough to replenish the car.

Hi AJ, It made me happy to see you wrote a response to my comment. I missed you man!
Tesla has stopped selling Powerwalls to anyone who doesn't have Tesla panels and in addition to that, all panel installations have to be bundled with Powerwalls. Here's an article with quotes from Elon.
https://electrek.co/2021/04/21/tesla-bundling-solar-products-powerwall-together-going-forward/
Like you said, it could be marketing. But it could hurt panel sales also. I'm planning on adding solar to my house this year. But I originally was against paying for Powerwalls. Where I live we have net metering and 2 Powerwalls would be a lot of added cost to keep from getting shut down during power outages, which we rarely have and when they have happened, it's just for a couple of hours.
Now that Tesla is forcing them as a bundle. I'm thinking about it as a way to use net metering in the nights and basically be a good citizen and produce all the power I need. So reduce the load on the grid even though our family will have an EV and a PHEV.
This made me think that this could also be an avenue for Tesla to have V2H with the Cybertruck and also lighten the load on the grid even as we all buy EV's.
My 50 year old home only has 100 amp service and so do most of the homes in my city. EV charging at home presents lots of questions. This may be an answer to how we ALL can adopt to EV's.

 

[Pappy]

Uhhhmmmm…. I’m pretty certain Mr. Line had better “Lockout and Tagout” the closest disconnect to his work, apply grounds to all phases prior to performing work. I personally wouldn’t intentionally connect alternate power to my cabin without first opening the disconnect to the Grid, but, it’s up to Mr. Lineman to make sure he goes home to his family every day. It’s not that difficult. There are some pretty crazy guys out there working on hot lines from a helicopter, but, I’m sure they have reduced the risk to lowest possible level.

 

[Pappy]

Hi AJ, It made me happy to see you wrote a response to my comment. I missed you man!
Tesla has stopped selling Powerwalls to anyone who doesn't have Tesla panels and in addition to that, all panel installations have to be bundled with Powerwalls. Here's an article with quotes from Elon.
https://electrek.co/2021/04/21/tesla-bundling-solar-products-powerwall-together-going-forward/
Like you said, it could be marketing. But it could hurt panel sales also. I'm planning on adding solar to my house this year. But I originally was against paying for Powerwalls. Where I live we have net metering and 2 Powerwalls would be a lot of added cost to keep from getting shut down during power outages, which we rarely have and when they have happened, it's just for a couple of hours.
Now that Tesla is forcing them as a bundle. I'm thinking about it as a way to use net metering in the nights and basically be a good citizen and produce all the power I need. So reduce the load on the grid even though our family will have an EV and a PHEV.
This made me think that this could also be an avenue for Tesla to have V2H with the Cybertruck and also lighten the load on the grid even as we all buy EV's.
My 50 year old home only has 100 amp service and so do most of the homes in my city. EV charging at home presents lots of questions. This may be an answer to how we ALL can adopt to EV's.

Ohhh, I so much agree with your thoughts. Everyone that can, should install a solar system to the maximum size the utility company will allow. Yes, it is the responsible thing to do as we utilize more and more EV in the states. I would think utility companies would support increases or additional tax incentives that would allow the public an opportunity to purchase/install solar and EV’s. Fingers are crossed for new legislation to accommodate these ideas.

 

[ajdelange]

Tesla has stopped selling Powerwalls to anyone who doesn't have Tesla panels and in addition to that, all panel installations have to be bundled with Powerwalls. Here's an article with quotes from Elon.
https://electrek.co/2021/04/21/tesla-bundling-solar-products-powerwall-together-going-forward/

I'm quite concerned about this as across the yard is a almost completed 3 car garage with 3 EVSE installed. What is not installed is utility service equipment and there is no intention to ever have it. The system will have 45 panels (about 12 kW) and 5 Powerwalls - if i can ever get them. Presumably all this stuff was ordered last year but they can't tell me when the Powerwalls will be delivered. We planned to use panels from another manufacturer with IQ-7 microinverters. I really love these microinverters as they allow the system to track the sun without motors etc. They are an essential part of the solar system I have on the main house as it was built without any though to solar collection. But a design requirement to the architect was that the garage have a roof facet large enough for 45 panels with slope to optimize annual collection. Thus presumably microinverters will not be so important and if Tesla forces me to use their components (string inverter AFAIK) I can live with that I suppose. The main issue is the uncertainty. I can't get information from the installer (who is way over booked) and they can't get information from Tesla (who are way behind in filling Powerwall orders).

I'm not a big tree hugger by any means but I cannot see how more atmospheric CO2 could be better than less and so am very enthusiastic about solar if not mainly for that reason but that mother nature supplies us with all this free energy and we'd be fools to snub it in favor of energy that is generated using fuels from questionable sources. I also think it's pretty cool to be able to say that my car runs on fusion and costs me nothing for fuel.

An interesting question for all of you interested in getting a solar system: where does any excess you generate go? The obvious answer is "the utility" so the question is really "What does the utility do with it?"

 

[ajdelange]

Uhhhmmmm…. I’m pretty certain Mr. Line had better “Lockout and Tagout” the closest disconnect to his work, apply grounds to all phases prior to performing work.

They are required to do that but don't. Also being certain that there is no back feed gives them belt and suspenders security.

I personally wouldn’t intentionally connect alternate power to my cabin without first opening the disconnect to the Grid, but, it’s up to Mr. Lineman to make sure he goes home to his family every day.

No. It's up to you to be sure that there is no way that the grid can be energized from that backup source. Backfeeding through you dryer outlet and opening the service disconnect is illegal, a code violation and dangerous. Maybe it's advancing years but I am no sure that I would remember to get all the disconnects in my house were I to do that. IOW you must have a proper lockout transfer switch installed or your sources (e.g. the IQ-7s I mentioned earlier) must automatically shut down if the grid is not detected.

There are some pretty crazy guys out there working on hot lines from a helicopter, but, I’m sure they have reduced the risk to lowest possible level.

They wear mesh suits, bring the helicopter to phase potential and, of course, are only in contact with one phase at a time. Nonetheless, I wouldn't take the job.

 

[ajdelange]

I would think utility companies would support increases or additional tax incentives that would allow the public an opportunity to purchase/install solar and EV’s.

Think again. Investor owned utilities exist to return value to their shareholders. They are not in business to figure out ways to help me avoid using the product from which they derive profit. Cooperatives are a different story,

Fingers are crossed for new legislation to accommodate these ideas.

It is only though legislation that net metering exists in many places (e.g. where I live) and the utilities have fought it tooth and nail. And I don't blame them. Apparently they can buy a kWh at wholesale for 3 or 4 ¢. They have to pay me (or give me a credit for) 13¢ for every kWh I send them. I used to buy hundreds of $ of electricity from them every month. My last two bills have been $7 (for "transmission" each and I am lagering up credits for the winter months when my production drops dramatically. They serve as my "battery" (supply my power at night), had to install a new meter (2 way) and have more complicated accounting for me - all at no charge. It is little wonder that they resist.

 

[Pappy]

They are required to do that but don't. Also being certain that there is no back feed gives them belt and suspenders security.

No. It's up to you to be sure that there is no way that the grid can be energized from that backup source. Backfeeding through you dryer outlet and opening the service disconnect is illegal, a code violation and dangerous. Maybe it's advancing years but I am no sure that I would remember to get all the disconnects in my house were I to do that. IOW you must have a proper lockout transfer switch installed or your sources (e.g. the IQ-7s I mentioned earlier) must automatically shut down if the grid is not detected.


They wear mesh suits, bring the helicopter to phase potential and, of course, are only in contact with one phase at a time. Nonetheless, I wouldn't take the job.

I stand behind my earlier statement, “ it’s up to Mr. Lineman, to ensure he goes home to his family”, not me, nor you, or anybody else for that matter. By the way I never said I had a dryer? I’d much rather disconnect line side feeders from my service panel AFTER I opened, locked out, tagged, service breaker to ensure I don’t feedback to grid. Course I wouldn’t go through all this for a standard power outage, I’d only consider this for a Texas long outage. Not like most folks I can stand to be without power for a bit.??

 

[ajdelange]

My county inspector thinks it is up to me as does the NFPA, the insurance companies and the courts. Violate the law and code at your own risk. You can fiercely proclaim your beliefs from the dock.

Remove conductors from a panel? It is much, much easier to throw a legal, safe, code complient transfer switch or, better yet, let an automatic one throw itself.

Sponsored