What single phase kVA will CT's on-board Charger handle?

17.088007490635

Active member
First Name
L
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
34
Location
Land of 10,000 Lakes
Vehicles
2004-ish Toyota RAV4, 2015 Nissan Leaf, & 1973 Chevy Suburban w 454 [RIP 2008-ish Kia Sportage].
Occupation
E
Country flag
If you like, skip down for the key question...


BACKGROUND INFO:
In previous years, I have pre-installed:​
two 1.5 inch pre-installed PVC conduit(s) going out to the detached garage on the north side of my driveway (length forgotten, but likely more than 100 feet)​
and​
two (one still available) 1.25 inch PVC conduit(s) going to a post on the south side of my driveway (length forgotten, but likely less than 100 feet).​
I also have (100 feet each of) #6 and #4 AWG conductors ready to install for two circuits in one of the conduit(s).
(AWG or kcmil) 60°C (140°F) 75°C (167°F)​
6 AWG 55 65​
4 AWG 70 85​
[The 2nd pipe at this location already has a NEMA 14-50 & a 50 Amp circuit installed for the 2nd unit.]
What I do NOT have is the circuit breaker, or a decision as to what Amperage said breakers should be at.
[CORRECTION:
It looks like I stopped this project after I had purchased a 50 AND 80 amp breaker(s).
I presume the 50 Amp (but probably NOT the 80 Amp.as well) will need to be exchanged for a GFCI version.]
{Note that I _AM_ aware of NEC's TIA 17-2 for Articles 625.44(A), 625.54(New) and 625.56(New)}
Yes, I do know the 2nd version of the Tesla Wall Connector could handle a 100 Amp circuit for 80 useful Amps and the 3rd version can only handle a 60 Amp circuit for 48 useful Amps.​
However, I am more interested in finding out...​




THE KEY QUESTION:

* Has Elon (or anyone else) stated (or can anyone deduce) how many 240v single phase Amps or KVA the Cybertruck's on-board Charger can handle?

(FYI: My memory says no.) THAT information will help me to decide exactly how to configure what circuits and conductors go where.



17.088




==========
FYI:
Below is a single phase chart for those of us in the U.S. who do not have three phase, like many in the EU:
First column is the Ampacity of the EVSE device.
Last column is the required Ampacity of the CIRCUIT that the same device should be on.

[{10A x 240v = 2.4kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 3000 VA] / 240v = 12.5 Amps
[{20A x 240v = 4.8kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 6000 VA] / 240v = 25 Amps
[{30A x 240v = 7.2kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 9000 VA] / 240v = 37.5 Amps
[{40A x 240v = 9.6kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 12000 VA] / 240v = 50 Amps
[{50A x 240v = 12.0kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 15000 VA] / 240v = 62.5 Amps <=====<<
[{60A x 240v = 14.4kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 18000 VA] / 240v = 75 Amps
[{70A x 240v = 16.8kVA (Watts} x 1.25 = 21000 VA] / 240v = 87.5 Amps <=====<<
[{80A x 240v = 19.2kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 24000 VA] / 240v = 100 Amps
[{90A x 240v = 21.6kVA (Watts)} x 1.25 = 27000 VA] / 240v = 112.5 Amps
[{100A x 240v = 24.0kVA (Watts)} X 1.25 = 30000 VA] / 240v = 125 Amps
=========










==========
My favorite "West Wing" quote (Ep. 1-18): 
from Sam Seaborn: ==========
Advertisement

 
Last edited:

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
6,029
Reaction score
7,949
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
No way to know, since we have no idea what sort of inverter the CT will use. They described it having 240v.

That's all we really know.

-Crissa
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,960
Reaction score
3,148
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
I think we can deduce with fair certainty that the CT will have a 240V 48A (11.52 kW) single ø charger for the North American market. The reason for this is that all their current vehicles use this charger, In the past they sold cars with 80A and later 72A charging capability but have more recently, as have all the other manufacturers cut back to 48A. The EVSE for this charger requires a 60A feeder, the largest the NEC permits without installation of a lockable disconnect switch.

A question in the minds of many of us is as to whether the TriMotor model (at least) will have a second charge port and with it a second 240 V charger. It would seem as if this second port will be necessary for Tesla to maintain parity with competitors such as Rivian and Lucid with respect to DC fast charging. If it has to be installed for that reason why not pair it with a second Level 2 charger as well?

This is all pure speculation at this point. All you can be sure of at this point is that there will be at least one 240 V 48 A charger.
 
OP
OP
17.088007490635

17.088007490635

Active member
First Name
L
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
34
Location
Land of 10,000 Lakes
Vehicles
2004-ish Toyota RAV4, 2015 Nissan Leaf, & 1973 Chevy Suburban w 454 [RIP 2008-ish Kia Sportage].
Occupation
E
Country flag
The EVSE for this charger requires a 60A feeder, the largest the NEC permits without installation of a lockable disconnect switch.
Can you provide me with a code reference?

As I understand the 2017 NEC's TIA, there is a 50 Amp limit for a _RECEPTACLE_, but there is no such limit (or GFCI requirement) for a hard-wired EVSE.
FFI, see the NEC's TIA 17-2 for Articles 625.44(A), 625.54(New) and 625.56(New).
...and yes, I do know that I still need to get my 2020 NEC.


17.088

.
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,960
Reaction score
3,148
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
The EVSE for this charger requires a 60A feeder, the largest the NEC permits without installation of a lockable disconnect switch.
Can you provide me with a code reference?


Sure. That's 625.43; "Disconnecting Means: For equipment rated more than 60 amperes or more than 150 volts to ground the disconnecting means shall be provided and installed in a readily accessible location. The disconnecting means shall be lockable open in accordance with 110.25.

As I understand the 2017 NEC's TIA, there is a 50 Amp limit for a _RECEPTACLE_, but there is no such limit (or GFCI requirement) for a hard-wired EVSE.
That's the way I read it.

.
 
OP
OP
17.088007490635

17.088007490635

Active member
First Name
L
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
34
Location
Land of 10,000 Lakes
Vehicles
2004-ish Toyota RAV4, 2015 Nissan Leaf, & 1973 Chevy Suburban w 454 [RIP 2008-ish Kia Sportage].
Occupation
E
Country flag
ajdelange:
Oh crap, I missed that Article.
See attached images.
20201106_121231.jpg


I installed a pair of Eaton "CHU1S" receptacle/junction boxes,
The plan was to have one (50 Amp) receptacle for portable EVSE(s) and a pull-through to a second (80 Amp) hard-wired EVSE.

Now that my eyes have been opened to Article 625.43, I will have to find some other box to serve as a disconnect box, preferably both a weather resistant disconnect AND NEMA 14-50 box. NUTS.

20201106_121332_HDR v2.jpg


Oh well, at least it was caught BEFORE the conductors were pulled.

Now I just need to know if/when Tesla will make a (80 x 0.80 =) 64 Amp version of their NEXT "Wall Connector", just in time for the CyberTruck's release.


17.088


.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
17.088007490635

17.088007490635

Active member
First Name
L
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
34
Location
Land of 10,000 Lakes
Vehicles
2004-ish Toyota RAV4, 2015 Nissan Leaf, & 1973 Chevy Suburban w 454 [RIP 2008-ish Kia Sportage].
Occupation
E
Country flag
UPDATE:

The circuit breaker panel where the J-Box/Receptacle-box is controlled from is 83 feet away, to include one lockable residential door and 8 steps downstairs. The breaker itself is compatible with a Square-D "QO1PL" accessory lock attachment point. I reread "Accessible, Readily (readily accessible)" in article 100. There is no restriction requiring the lock being RIGHT AT the equipment. I could continue with "Plan A". However...

The smart thing would be to double-check with the local inspector (AHJ) to see if 83 feet fits within his interpretation of:​
"Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections..."
(On the plus side, he did approve the single 50 Amp circuit's installation.)


17.088

p.s.: See also URL: https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2005-10-24
 
Last edited:

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,960
Reaction score
3,148
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
Now I just need to know if/when Tesla will make a (80 x 0.80 =) 64 Amp version of their NEXT "Wall Connector", just in time for the CyberTruck's release.
.
No one knows what Tesla may do in the future but at the moment they have stopped making any Level 2 EVSE that delivers more than 48 Amperes thus requiring 60A circuit so that the handy lockable disconnect is not required. As none of their vehicles has, or is projected to have a charger that takes more than 48A this makes sense.

They have from time to time offered the older Gen2 HPWC mostly for the sake of those of us that already had one or more of those installed. They can take up to 80A (there are some older Teslas out there that can accept that much and some that can take 72) but unless you have one of those cars there is no point.

Should, as some of us hope, the CT have multiple chargers I expect each will have its own port and each will be limited to 48A. The current philosophy seems to be that an HPWC should be an 11.5 kW device connected to its own 60A breaker and would thus not require the lockable disconnect.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
6,029
Reaction score
7,949
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Being able to lock it open, though, is a pretty simple requirement, and nearly all the boxes at that level can be locked. (The switchplate I bought for my EVSE was designed for a pool, and it lockable, too.)

-Crissa
 
OP
OP
17.088007490635

17.088007490635

Active member
First Name
L
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
34
Location
Land of 10,000 Lakes
Vehicles
2004-ish Toyota RAV4, 2015 Nissan Leaf, & 1973 Chevy Suburban w 454 [RIP 2008-ish Kia Sportage].
Occupation
E
Country flag
OPee here...
Has anyone heard any new news on this topic OR when Elon's so-called update is due to happen?
17.988
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,960
Reaction score
3,148
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
I have seen no indication from any corner of the industry that the largest Level 2 chargers installed will be bigger than 48A. Most of the focus seems to be on Level 3. Multiple ports are one path to faster Level 3 charging using existing charging infrastructure and Tesla has experimented with that in the Semi. It is feasible, therefore, that they could do that with the CT and, given that the second port is there, equip it with an AC charger. This, of course, adds cost and complexity. Even at 500 Wh/mi 48 Amps adds 23 miles per hour. An 80% charge could be obtained at home in 17 hours and that should be acceptable. Doubling the rate with a second charger would definitely be a "nice to have" but I'm not sure to the point that Tesla would offer it.
 
OP
OP
17.088007490635

17.088007490635

Active member
First Name
L
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
34
Location
Land of 10,000 Lakes
Vehicles
2004-ish Toyota RAV4, 2015 Nissan Leaf, & 1973 Chevy Suburban w 454 [RIP 2008-ish Kia Sportage].
Occupation
E
Country flag
I have seen no indication from any corner of the industry that the largest Level 2 chargers installed will be bigger than 48A.
--- CLIP ---
Even at 500 Wh/mi 48 Amps adds 23 miles per hour. An 80% charge could be obtained at home in 17 hours and that should be acceptable.
--- CLIP ---
Thanks for the reply. I THINK you understood my question, but just-in-case I want to clarify a few things...

In the LONG run, what I'm really interested in finding out ahead of time if the Tesla Cybertruck (or the "Y" for that matter) will ever have an on-board-charger rated for 64 Amps (80 Amp circuit).

I may want to wait on purchasing a used 2nd generation (and 24' long cord) Tesla High Power Wall Connector (their EVSE), and instead terminate my 80 amp conductors directly to an even newer (hypothetical ~4th) generation WC and thereby skip a splice point.
64 Amps (=80 Amp circuit x 0.80)

On the other hand, if a "Crystal Ball" could tell me that Tesla will never make a Cypertruck with a 64 (or 80) amp capable on-board-charger, then I may as well purchase and install the 3rd generation WC.

For the moment however, I've got the time to wait and see...
...and speculate, of course!



17.088


[p.s.: FWIW, before this project of mine came to a halt, I had purchased THWN-2 Str. 4 Ga wire (as well as a 80 amp CB) for use in a 1.25" SCH 80 PVC conduit path, with other unrelated conductors.]

.
 

ajdelange

Well-known member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,960
Reaction score
3,148
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla X LR+, Lexus SUV, Toyota SR5, Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
EE (Retired)
Country flag
In the LONG run, what I'm really interested in finding out ahead of time if the Tesla Cybertruck (or the "Y" for that matter) will ever have an on-board-charger rated for 64 Amps (80 Amp circuit).
In my opinion, no. But that is an opinion.

I may want to wait on purchasing a used 2nd generation (and 24' long cord) Tesla High Power Wall Connector (their EVSE),
The only reason to buy a 2d gen that I can see is if you already have one installed and want a second station paired (shared) with it (I did that).

and instead terminate my 80 amp conductors directly to an even newer (hypothetical ~4th) generation WC and thereby skip a splice point.
I don't see 64 amp level 2 chargers but I don't have a crystal ball.
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top