Why we here need to pretend to be excited about the Ford F-150 Lightning

Eye of Elon

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A quote from the Ford CEO, " ...F-150 Lightning can power your home during an outage...".

If we are hyped about this, perhaps Elon will change his tune about V2G.

https://tcrn.ch/3tzuta6


Ford reveals three new details about its officially named F-150 Lightning electric pickup truck
Kirsten Korosec@kirstenkorosec / 9:12 AM PDT•May 10, 2021
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Lightning_16x9.jpg

Image Credits: Ford
Ford confirmed Monday that its all-electric pickup truck will be named the F-150 Lightning, resurrecting a name that once donned the SVT F-150 in the 1990s.
The company hasn’t said much about the powertrain, range or other specs. However, Ford President and CEO Jim Farley provided new details about the electric pickup that is coming to market next year. Most notably, it seems that the battery on the Ford F-150 Lightning will have the ability to power a home during an outage. Ford has touted the capability of its Hybrid F-150 to power a job site or tools, but this is the first time the company has said one of its vehicles could act as a backup generator to a home.
Farley also said the electric truck will have the capability to handle over-the-air software updates and will be quicker than the original F-150 Lightning performance truck, the V8-powered truck that debuted in 1993.

“Every so often, a new vehicle comes along that disrupts the status quo and changes the game … Model T, Mustang, Prius, Model 3. Now comes the F-150 Lightning,” Farley said in a statement. “America’s favorite vehicle for nearly half a century is going digital and fully electric. F-150 Lightning can power your home during an outage; it’s even quicker than the original F-150 Lightning performance truck; and it will constantly improve through over-the-air updates.”
Production of the electric pickup truck is expected to begin next spring at the company’s Ford Rouge Electric Vehicle Center.
The Ford F-150 Lightning will be revealed via a livestream May 19 at the company’s headquarters in Dearborn, Michigan.
The Ford F-150 Lightning follows the introduction of the all-electric Mustang Mach-E. The E-Transit, a configurable all-electric cargo van focused on commercial customers, is also part of the automaker’s $11.5 billion investment in electrification.





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Diehard

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Production of the electric pickup truck is expected to begin next spring at the company’s Ford Rouge Electric Vehicle Center.
The Ford F-150 Lightning will be revealed via a livestream May 19 at the company’s headquarters in Dearborn, Michigan.
That is aggressive. If the numbers are not ridiculously low and price not ridiculously high, this turf war is very good for us.

I wonder if it has some Rivian inside or if it is all Ford.
 
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ÆCIII

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While V2G seems great, IMO it's a trivial direction of power transfer with additional underlying detractors. If during a power outage you had V2G and powered your home with it, you're then depleting your vehicle battery stranding yourself at or near home, and you may not not know how long the power outage will last. So you're trading one problem for another.

With a Tesla powerwall and/or solar, you have home energy reserves without sacrificing your vehicle range to go out and assist others or replenish other vital supplies. IMO it is better to have a 'real' energy reserve, not just a means to cannibalize energy stored in the vehicle. Also, what happens if a power outage happens right before you were just 'going to charge' the car (say just after you arrive home, or after a few days commute)? In this case V2G would not even help you if the vehicle didn't already have decent SOC.

Also powering the home via V2G would also require knowledge and discipline to regulate use to avoid excess current draw and rapid battery drain, possibly even stressing the vehicle battery. Water heaters, and other high current devices might need to be manually shut off during these times, and that could be a tedious process for family members. What's going to stop a teenager from using the stove, microwave, or electric dryer during this reserve power draw from the vehicle? One would have to ideally set up a special transfer switch to isolate circuits for use during reserve V2G (V2H) power. After all, if using V2G during a power outage, wouldn't you want your reserves to last as long as possible, while avoiding total depletion of the vehicle battery charge? Complete discharge is not healthy at all for current Tesla battery packs, and one even gets a warning that their battery might be damaged at times when the SOC is getting very low.

For those who want V2G as a utility rate saving option (charge vehicle during off-peak rates, and then power the house some from the vehicle during peak utility rates) - I'll note that for this type of V2G usage you would be incurring numerous more charge and discharge cycles on your BEV and likely shortening the life of the battery.

With all these considerations, I think Tesla has already 'done the math' and which IMO is likely why Elon isn't so 'enthused' about V2G. Concepts often sound great in 'theory', but true actuation of the numbers involved along with testing, is necessary to determine how practical something is in real world usage. Many people don't have a good 'grasp' of what different power or current is drawn by their various electrical devices in their home. Fortunately, actuating technology metrics along with testing, is something that Tesla has proven to be very good at, resulting in a much better vehicle and sustainability products for us.

Not saying that V2G can't work because it definitely will work; I just don't think it should be a first tier power redundancy option in a practical sense. Now, if one could constrain their use of it for only *rare emergencies* (powerwall already depleted, or other situation), then V2G might 'save the day' when really needed. But using it 'all the time' would likely shorten BEV battery life and/or affect the BEV range (not good).
 

ÆCIII

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So, I wouldn't be so 'overly excited' about the F150 Lightening V2G possibilities. Yes, they will gladly tout it as a selling point, because think about it, isn't that what ICE vehicle manufacturers do? They will sell you something they 'think' you will 'want' (but not necessarily what you 'need'). They will gladly even have a slightly shorter battery life, because they think no one will pay attention to that, and it gives them recurring repair business (which is an integral part of their business model). So of course they will tout VG2 in a second if it will slice some sales from Tesla and give them recurring service revenue down the road, even if long term the V2G might not be that practical. On paper (and advertising brochures, web pages), the Ford F150 Lightening V2G sounds great, and many will buy into that advertising narrative. But dreaming and actuating are very different things. Not trying to coin a phrase, but I think "Marketing geniuses thoroughly know, the directions sheep will tend to go". Tesla on the other hand, seems to treat consumers more like intelligent people.
 

VolklKatana

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I will celebrate the vehicle simply in the context that its another EV to help boost competition within the market. Competition is a good thing and pushes everyone to make their products better and in this case will help boost EV adoption.

As far as the vehicle itself is concerned, its a Ford. Personally never been a fan of their vehicles, and doubt this will be much different from every other truck they put on the road.
 

Diehard

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So, I wouldn't be so 'overly excited' about the F150 Lightening V2G possibilities. Yes, they will gladly tout it as a selling point, because think about it, isn't that what ICE vehicle manufacturers do? They will sell you something they 'think' you will 'want' (but not necessarily what you 'need'). They will gladly even have a slightly shorter battery life, because they think no one will pay attention to that, and it gives them recurring repair business (which is an integral part of their business model). So of course they will tout VG2 in a second if it will slice some sales from Tesla and give them recurring service revenue down the road, even if long term the V2G might not be that practical. On paper (and advertising brochures, web pages), the Ford F150 Lightening V2G sounds great, and many will buy into that advertising narrative. But dreaming and actuating are very different things. Not trying to coin a phrase, but I think "Marketing geniuses thoroughly know, the directions sheep will tend to go". Tesla on the other hand, seems to treat consumers more like intelligent people.
It sounds like you are saying it should not be a factor in choosing your EV. The fact is whether it should or not, for some people it is. Every manufacturer has been telling me having a full size or any size spare tire should not be important to me but it is. Tesla has a world view of everyone having a solar roof and power wall and that is their business model. Ford sells only cars and reality today for me is that my roof does not get a whole lot of sun, my wife’s ICE will be in the driveway for at least another 10 years (I won’t be stranded) and having the “option” to save my seafood and anti depressant medicine (I keep a ton of Ice-cream in the freezer) has value for me. All things the same, I will probably still pick CT but I would consider it a compromise if it was not able to run my freezers and Ford was.
 

ÆCIII

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It sounds like you are saying it should not be a factor in choosing your EV. The fact is whether it should or not, for some people it is. Every manufacturer has been telling me having a full size or any size spare tire should not be important to me but it is. Tesla has a world view of everyone having a solar roof and power wall and that is their business model. Ford sells only cars and reality today for me is that my roof does not get a whole lot of sun, my wife’s ICE will be in the driveway for at least another 10 years (I won’t be stranded) and having the “option” to save my seafood and anti depressant medicine (I keep a ton of Ice-cream in the freezer) has value for me. All things the same, I will probably still pick CT but I would consider it a compromise if it was not able to run my freezers and Ford was.
Again, you're talking about an emergency, (which I stated would be viable at the end of my first post of the thread), and not everyday use. Again, if you're truly concerned about that (keeping seafood and meds at temperature), you would've already had other power backup redundancy measures in place instead of somehow waiting for a vehicle with V2G to be the first savior. I don't disagree that V2G can't be a 'deal breaker' for those wanting that as an additional option, no matter what power backup systems they might already have. Technically, the CT already does have limited V2G (because it will have power outlets onboard), so one only would have to make a cable/adapter (but it might possibly void some part of the warranty too, of Tesla doesn't approve of such use). Yet the current (power) would be limited and you would have to know what you're doing with current draw and devices turned on in your house. But, that same limitation also applies to any other V2G implementation as well, whether Ford or Tesla.

I was mainly pointing out some of the real limiting factors that a V2G implementation would have, and the dynamics of how some people could easily overtax it or abuse it, as well as it's increased battery charge and discharge tempo causing a decrease in battery life and range loss over time. If one is willing to accept those risks and eventual outcomes, then of course their choice is to be respected as any other. But, for a disciplined use of it only in emergency scenarios while having added peace of mind it may offer, I can see why you would consider it as a viable option.

Also, decades long reputations of ICE manufacturers using the recurring service incidents business model for a large part of their revenue, now always gives me pause to examine their motivations for any feature, and how it will ultimately affect maintenance, reliability, and long term total cost of ownership. So I don't just weigh aspects of a Ford EV or Tesla EV on just features alone. I also look at their expenses overhead, and what they're doing with their money (chosen expenses), because whatever those expenses are, they are ultimately having to get that money from us.
 

Ehninger1212

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I'm very excited for this, I think this will convert many more ICE drivers who don't like the CT or don't want to own a Tesla.
 

Pappy

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It sounds like you are saying it should not be a factor in choosing your EV. The fact is whether it should or not, for some people it is. Every manufacturer has been telling me having a full size or any size spare tire should not be important to me but it is. Tesla has a world view of everyone having a solar roof and power wall and that is their business model. Ford sells only cars and reality today for me is that my roof does not get a whole lot of sun, my wife’s ICE will be in the driveway for at least another 10 years (I won’t be stranded) and having the “option” to save my seafood and anti depressant medicine (I keep a ton of Ice-cream in the freezer) has value for me. All things the same, I will probably still pick CT but I would consider it a compromise if it was not able to run my freezers and Ford was.
Exactly… More Ev’s on the road can only help the current lack of Charging Stations in most areas. The competition between each manufacturer may get/keep the price low enough so some of us can afford them. If Tesla can keep his word and sell the CT that I chose at around $50k then the others are gonna have to come up with some very sweet ideas to steal that market. Ford has Tesla in a bind when it comes to availability of service centers and I know that’s a big deal in all of our minds, who/how do I get my CT fixed if it breaks? Call somebody 5 hours away to come fix it????? I got 2 Ford dealers with 45- minutes. IMO you gotta work real hard to beat the interior, ride, and, lack of cabin noise in the F150. More EV’s to choose from? Good idea!
 

azjohn

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Competition is always good, I am interested in what the product will look like. Not a big fan of V2G, say if there is an extended power outage and you use the CT battery to keep things going than you have a vehicle you may not be able to drive.

I am very dependent on electricity, only thing I have on gas( propane) is bbq grill and gas log fireplace. I have a propane powered generator for power outages. I am most concerned about my well pump, fridge and freezers, HVAC, everything else I can do without short term
 

firsttruck

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....
Ford has Tesla in a bind when it comes to availability of service centers and I know that’s a big deal in all of our minds, who/how do I get my CT fixed if it breaks? Call somebody 5 hours away to come fix it????? I got 2 Ford dealers with 45- minutes.
1. I think you are making an assumption about all Ford service centers that has not been true in the past for past Ford hybrids & EVs.
Will all service centers have techs trained to work on EVs?
Will all service centers have the diagnostic & repair tools.

2. Service centers make their profit from doing service & parts sales. EV require much less service than ICE. In long-term many service will close.
 

TruckElectric

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Personally never been a fan of their vehicles, and doubt this will be much different from every other truck they put on the road.
There is a pretty good reason the F-150 has been the best selling P/U in the U.S. for years so your opinion of Ford trucks doesn't seem to matter much, does it?
 

ÆCIII

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2. Service centers make their profit from doing service & parts sales. EV require much less service than ICE. In long-term many service will close.
Agreed. Service center dependency has been burned and 'brain-washed' into the consumer mindset, because that's what the dealership associations have wanted all along. However, Tesla is illuminating the reality that vehicles can be made to require much less or almost no service comparatively, thus making the 'Recurring Service Incidents' revenue cornerstone of the ICE dealership business model - more obsolete.
 
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Friday

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2. Service centers make their profit from doing service & parts sales. EV require much less service than ICE. In long-term many service will close.
THIS. This right there! Traditional ICE service centers/dealerships (some rightly called stealerships) are in mortal danger as EV's increase. No regular fluids/tune-up/etc maintenance, MUCH fewer parts in EV's, rise of mobile tech support at vehicle's location, OTA updates.............

Techcrunch, Automotive News, Know You Know and others see the change coming, yet the Big ICE is seemingly blind to it or hoping EV adoption stalls out.
 

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