Why we here need to pretend to be excited about the Ford F-150 Lightning

jerhenderson

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That is aggressive. If the numbers are not ridiculously low and price not ridiculously high, this turf war is very good for us.

I wonder if it has some Rivian inside or if it is all Ford.
expected to begin.... they've been saying that for 5 years.





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ÆCIII

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expected to begin.... they've been saying that for 5 years.
Exactly! Seems whenever they realize they're behind on an innovation, their marketing department knee jerks to generate a distraction in order to hang on to customers while attempting to slow competitors' sales. What they're really saying is, "...uh uh we don't have anything like that right now, but stay with us and give us more time, we'll make something as good or better - the check is in the mail..."
 

Bill906

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In the last year my highest monthly electric usage was 668kWh in July of 2020. I was working from home and I tend to keep my house on the cool side.
668kWh / 31 days = 21.6 kWh/day
If a model 3 has 60-75kWh of energy in it, it can power my house for 3 days during the month I used the most energy.
My lowest electricity usage was October 2020 with 358kWh. The model 3 could power close to a week of that month.
I live in Wisconsin. My furnace is natural gas. Everything else is electric including my range, oven, clothes dryer and water heater. Yes I have central air conditioning.

I'd like to note that @Crissa 's statement was theoretical. Technically you cannot power a house for ANY days with a Model 3 as there's no good way to get the energy out. With that said, I'm not sure why @ÆCIII brings power into the equation. In this theoretical discussion only energy matters. It would make sense to discuss power if we knew the method of getting the energy out as the inverter would limit the power. But since that was not part of the original statement it should be ignored.
 

ÆCIII

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In the last year my highest monthly electric usage was 668kWh in July of 2020. I was working from home and I tend to keep my house on the cool side.
668kWh / 31 days = 21.6 kWh/day
If a model 3 has 60-75kWh of energy in it, it can power my house for 3 days during the month I used the most energy.
My lowest electricity usage was October 2020 with 358kWh. The model 3 could power close to a week of that month.
I live in Wisconsin. My furnace is natural gas. Everything else is electric including my range, oven, clothes dryer and water heater. Yes I have central air conditioning.

I'd like to note that @Crissa 's statement was theoretical. Technically you cannot power a house for ANY days with a Model 3 as there's no good way to get the energy out. With that said, I'm not sure why @ÆCIII brings power into the equation. In this theoretical discussion only energy matters. It would make sense to discuss power if we knew the method of getting the energy out as the inverter would limit the power. But since that was not part of the original statement it should be ignored.
Good information and good points. Power at a given time doesn't always translate well, because it's use is not constant for the most part. With variations and intermittent usage the overall consumption (energy) can easily be less.

However, I still maintain that my initial impression that three days to sustain a house from a Model 3 battery pack might be a stretch, although admittedly I was looking more at instantaneous power. According to the figures in https://www.electricchoice.com/blog/electricity-on-average-do-homes/ the average monthly kW household consumption is 909 kWh for the USA, with the states ranging from 515 kWh up to 1273 kWh monthly. That translates to between 1 ½ to 3 days duration on 60 kWh battery reserve, depending on your location with its inherent heating or cooling needs. So in the *best case* one may get three days from a 60 kWh V2G connection, but my original post actually acknowledged that, citing California as one of those examples. But for those who aren't living in dry and perfect room temperature climates, I was stating the consumption would likely be too much to last for three days.

I still maintain reservations about expectations of V2G for home backup electrical power, because one doesn't know when an unscheduled outage will occur, so it could be hit or miss on what the state of charge in the EV battery pack will be. Add to that the increased charge/discharge cycles incurred because many would not be disciplined enough to constrain it to emergency use and would instead be trying to take energy during off-peak and power their homes during peak constantly. Areas with high rates make that temptation hard to resist. In fact I'm guessing that's why some people might be strong advocates of V2G, but they're not thinking about the effects of increased charge/discharge cycle and their effect on battery degradation. Then there is the factor of making the vehicle unavailable for transportation during the V2G connection.

It also depends on what you want to be ready for. I tend to have a 'prepper' mentality so I usually want to be ready for the worst case (peak) hours of the day consumption, vs best case (idle) consumption. I think it is best to allow for worst case usage instead of best case.

But, these discussions do bring out and illuminate good examples with everyone doing their research, so in the end we hopefully will be better informed for all our efforts.
 
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I am excited for this. Tesla wanted to change the market and this is what is happening. I am not going to put down any brand that makes an attempt to electrify their cars even if they are a decade behind Tesla. At least they are doing it. Better late than never I guess?

The fact that Ford is making their icons like the mustang and F150 and the lighting will put in the faces of the nay-sayers that their favorite cars are making the move and to realize that electric cars are the future and not be ignorant to it.

I wasn't a fan of the SVT 150 lighting but the name "Lighting" for an electric truck sounds fitting to me and will rebrand that badge.
 

Diehard

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expected to begin.... they've been saying that for 5 years.
I am wondering a little more about the impact of waiting in general these days. Not as much for Ford as for CT. With potential for inflation getting out of hand and Tesla getting comfortable with raising prices instead of reducing them, it makes me question the wisdom of waiting to get something later especially when I am not sure how much later it will be. Same old question ladies have; Should I wait for Mr. Right (CT) or settle for Mr. Right now (May be a Ridgeline or the new Frontier). Should I save the planet tomorrow? or the disappearing dollar in my pocket today? I still have not seen ANY production EV trucks on the road. Is optimism a blessing or a curse?
 
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Crissa

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Sorry, I am correct on kWhs to consumption.

A generator must be able to handle your peak load spikes and run continuously. But a battery doesn't care, for the most part. You need inverters to have the peak capacity, but the peak discharge of a battery is practically infinite.

You want to keep it under the charge rate (or 'C') but that's a number that's a multiple of the total battery capacity.

-Crissa
 

DarinCT

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I am excited for this. Tesla wanted to change the market and this is what is happening. I am not going to put down any brand that makes an attempt to electrify their cars even if they are a decade behind Tesla. At least they are doing it. Better late than never I guess?

The fact that Ford is making their icons like the mustang and F150 and the lighting will put in the faces of the nay-sayers that their favorite cars are making the move and to realize that electric cars are the future and not be ignorant to it.

I wasn't a fan of the SVT 150 lighting but the name "Lighting" for an electric truck sounds fitting to me and will rebrand that badge.
Yes. And also definitely better than naming your PHEV Volt and your BEV Bolt. It's as if Chevy wanted to give away "Lightning"...
 

Tinker71

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Also powering the home via V2G would also require knowledge and discipline to regulate use to avoid excess current draw and rapid battery drain, possibly even stressing the vehicle battery. Water heaters, and other high current devices might need to be manually shut off during these times, and that could be a tedious process for family members. What's going to stop a teenager from using the stove, microwave, or electric dryer during this reserve power draw from the vehicle?



Remember folks we CT owners will always have the option of powering a few devices with extension cords during an emergency and closely monitoring our own battery.

The whole virtual power plant concept is intriguing. Say you contract to allow a daily 24 hr - 20kWr drawdown of your battery at $.20 but the next 20 cost $.40 and then it disconnects from the grid. I am sure you will have a ton of options and over rides. One override is you have a trip the next day and will be charging to 100%. You could take your CT off the grid for a period. The virtual grid would know that (hopefully anonymously) and might contract with somebody else (electronically from preestablished settings) to compensate.

To make the clean smart grid of the future work we will need to accept some variability in rates and our appliances will need to start/stop based on our settings and those rates. Hopefully it will mostly happen in the background.

I plan to max charge to 85% except for trips to maximize battery life. If I could sell up to 20 kWhr nightly I would still have 190 mile range in my CT2. It might be worth it at the right price and assumed battery degradation cost. I have been hoping from the get go that I might be able to swap out my 6 year old battery and upgrade to the latest tech anyway. The numbers will be different for each of us.

This all said I bet Tesla could activate V2G pretty easily with a hardware swap and of course programming if the numbers really made sense.
 

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Tinker71: You might want to edit the message to avoid including your own reply inside of my quote, to instead make your post appear like this:

ÆCIII said:

Also powering the home via V2G would also require knowledge and discipline to regulate use to avoid excess current draw and rapid battery drain, possibly even stressing the vehicle battery. Water heaters, and other high current devices might need to be manually shut off during these times, and that could be a tedious process for family members. What's going to stop a teenager from using the stove, microwave, or electric dryer during this reserve power draw from the vehicle?
Remember folks we CT owners will always have the option of powering a few devices with extension cords during an emergency and closely monitoring our own battery.

The whole virtual power plant concept is intriguing. Say you contract to allow a daily 24 hr - 20kWr drawdown of your battery at $.20 but the next 20 cost $.40 and then it disconnects from the grid. I am sure you will have a ton of options and over rides. One override is you have a trip the next day and will be charging to 100%. You could take your CT off the grid for a period. The virtual grid would know that (hopefully anonymously) and might contract with somebody else (electronically from preestablished settings) to compensate.

To make the clean smart grid of the future work we will need to accept some variability in rates and our appliances will need to start/stop based on our settings and those rates. Hopefully it will mostly happen in the background.

I plan to max charge to 85% except for trips to maximize battery life. If I could sell up to 20 kWhr nightly I would still have 190 mile range in my CT2. It might be worth it at the right price and assumed battery degradation cost. I have been hoping from the get go that I might be able to swap out my 6 year old battery and upgrade to the latest tech anyway. The numbers will be different for each of us.

This all said I bet Tesla could activate V2G pretty easily with a hardware swap and of course programming if the numbers really made sense.
 

Cybertruck Hawaii

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Why would I want a gasoline truck converted into a electric vehicle when Tesla builds a truly electric vehicle from the ground up?
 

Tinker71

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Why would I want a gasoline truck converted into a electric vehicle when Tesla builds a truly electric vehicle from the ground up?
I would like to see a super plug hybrid for towing vehicles. You could have a 15- 20 HP natural gas generator and a 80 plus kWhr plug in battery with electric drive. In the winter the waste heat would improve your mileage. With natural gas or propane you could avoid most emission equipment and keep the motor compact. You tell the vehicle how far you intent to go and it would run the motor just enough to comfortably get you to the next charging station and or maintain the cab temperatures in winter. A 20 HP engine running continuously would probably enable you to make your normal range that you would have gotten without your tow load. If you run out of charge you could just pull over for 30-40 minutes and charge the battery to get another 20 miles of range. In the morning when you de-ice you would start your natural gas motor, top off the charge and warm up the vehicle at the same time.

I would bet over the life of the vehicle for most weekend warrior 85% of your energy consumption could be clean electricity off the grid.....eventually. This would be better than running an ICE 100% of the time or a regular hybrid.
 

HaulingAss

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So, I wouldn't be so 'overly excited' about the F150 Lightening V2G possibilities. Yes, they will gladly tout it as a selling point, because think about it, isn't that what ICE vehicle manufacturers do? They will sell you something they 'think' you will 'want' (but not necessarily what you 'need'). They will gladly even have a slightly shorter battery life, because they think no one will pay attention to that, and it gives them recurring repair business (which is an integral part of their business model). So of course they will tout VG2 in a second if it will slice some sales from Tesla and give them recurring service revenue down the road, even if long term the V2G might not be that practical. On paper (and advertising brochures, web pages), the Ford F150 Lightening V2G sounds great, and many will buy into that advertising narrative. But dreaming and actuating are very different things. Not trying to coin a phrase, but I think "Marketing geniuses thoroughly know, the directions sheep will tend to go". Tesla on the other hand, seems to treat consumers more like intelligent people.
Well put. I could never understand why Tesla fans were so upbeat about a technology that would cannibalize your mobility to run your refrigerator and lights when that mobility might be critical for safety or comfort. There are solutions to power your home without disabling your vehicle.
 
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HaulingAss

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I would like to see a super plug hybrid for towing vehicles. You could have a 15- 20 HP natural gas generator and a 80 plus kWhr plug in battery with electric drive. In the winter the waste heat would improve your mileage. With natural gas or propane you could avoid most emission equipment and keep the motor compact. You tell the vehicle how far you intent to go and it would run the motor just enough to comfortably get you to the next charging station and or maintain the cab temperatures in winter. A 20 HP engine running continuously would probably enable you to make your normal range that you would have gotten without your tow load. If you run out of charge you could just pull over for 30-40 minutes and charge the battery to get another 20 miles of range. In the morning when you de-ice you would start your natural gas motor, top off the charge and warm up the vehicle at the same time.

I would bet over the life of the vehicle for most weekend warrior 85% of your energy consumption could be clean electricity off the grid.....eventually. This would be better than running an ICE 100% of the time or a regular hybrid.
Having two pure battery electric vehicles for three years, I don't see the advantage of the extra complexity. Current BEVs do all that without needing fuel tanks, engines, exhaust pipes, fueling, etc. A pure BEV is better than a hybrid. Charging points are multiplying like rabbits and 350 miles is a LONG way.

Have you ever heard of the KISS principle?
 

Crissa

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Well put. I could never understand why Tesla fans were so upbeat about a technology that would cannibalize your mobility to run your refrigerator and lights when that mobility might be critical for safety or comfort. There are solutions to power your home without disabling your vehicle.
It doesn't disable the vehicle. As pointed out, without doing any energy saving, a car can power a house form three days. Let alone only the refrigerator.

-Crissa
 

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