Why we here need to pretend to be excited about the Ford F-150 Lightning

HaulingAss

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This is all good. Hopefully lightening will reduces the weight time for CT. It will get us a CT update soon. After a year and a half of silence, Tesla must have a ton of shock and awe news to share. If I get more science treatment from Tesla, I will start to think, there were never a plan to mass produce and the whole thing was just to light a fire under Ford and GM booty.

I think Ford is going to make a lot of things that are standard on CT as option which makes CT a better value. I definitely like the look of CT a whole lot more however if Tesla keeps me hanging and Ford can get me an EV truck two years earlier than CT, I may settle for less and live with being smoked by your CT at the light. For now I am crossing my fingers Tesla will communicate a bit better.
Wow! I'm baffled that you think it's even possible that Tesla does not intend to mass produce the Cybertruck. It shows a disconnect from the history of Elon Musk. He does not announce products he doesn't intend to produce. We are waiting on the Cybertruck, the Roadster and the semi. The Roadster is a lower priority because it was always intended as a "halo" vehicle and will never move the carbon needle much, if at all. The Cybertruck and Semi will both hit the market soon.

If I was worried about any truck becoming reality in a reasonable timeframe it would be the e F-150. Because Ford first announced it at SEMA in 2008. And we are still waiting. The design and engineering of the e F-150 is still not nailed down while the final production Cybertruck is due to be revealed any day now. The other reason to be wary of the e F-150 is because it's very inefficient with a large battery and will not be profitable for Ford, except perhaps for the few they are able to sell for over $80K. So, while I do think they will start selling it next year, I expect extremely low volumes. And they will have a convenient excuse why they are not producing it in larger quantities. Mark my words! This is something we can re-visit as 2022 draws to a close. I bet Ford delivers less than 8,000 of them by the end of the year. In contrast, Ford sells around a million F-series trucks per year. 8,000 is not even a drop in the bucket. Even if they triple that (24,000) it will not amount to much.

The Cybertruck is not only about raw acceleration and power, it will handle in a different league compared to any F-series truck. Closer to a sportscar than a truck. Unless I'm wrong about this, and I seriously doubt I am, only a person with more money than brains would buy the e F-150 rather than a Cybertruck. The e F-150 only has a 5.5 foot bed! Of course, demand is so high for the Cybertruck it could take Tesla years to work through the reservation book because tons of people will be piling on before all the original orders can be filled.

I'm glad I have three reservations in!
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Crissa

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Fuel to battery to motion can be more efficient than regular ICE but that's basically impossible in a long-distance towing situation which is what we were discussing, if I'm not mistaking.
In that case, run your generator at its optimum and then supply the remainder on battery. That's how the better hybrids work, and how the fuel-cell vehicles work, because fuel-cells have a static output.

-Crissa
 

Tinker71

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Wow! I'm baffled that you think it's even possible that Tesla does not intend to mass produce the Cybertruck. It shows a disconnect from the history of Elon Musk. He does not announce products he doesn't intend to produce. We are waiting on the Cybertruck, the Roadster and the semi. The Roadster is a lower priority because it was always intended as a "halo" vehicle and will never move the carbon needle much, if at all. The Cybertruck and Semi will both hit the market soon.

If I was worried about any truck becoming reality in a reasonable timeframe it would be the e F-150. Because Ford first announced it at SEMA in 2008. And we are still waiting. The design and engineering of the e F-150 is still not nailed down while the final production Cybertruck is due to be revealed any day now. The other reason to be wary of the e F-150 is because it's very inefficient with a large battery and will not be profitable for Ford, except perhaps for the few they are able to sell for over $80K. So, while I do think they will start selling it next year, I expect extremely low volumes. And they will have a convenient excuse why they are not producing it in larger quantities. Mark my words! This is something we can re-visit as 2022 draws to a close. I bet Ford delivers less than 8,000 of them by the end of the year. In contrast, Ford sells around a million F-series trucks per year. 8,000 is not even a drop in the bucket. Even if they triple that (24,000) it will not amount to much.

The Cybertruck is not only about raw acceleration and power, it will handle in a different league compared to any F-series truck. Closer to a sportscar than a truck. Unless I'm wrong about this, and I seriously doubt I am, only a person with more money than brains would buy the e F-150 rather than a Cybertruck. The e F-150 only has a 5.5 foot bed! Of course, demand is so high for the Cybertruck it could take Tesla years to work through the reservation book because tons of people will be piling on before all the original orders can be filled.

I'm glad I have three reservations in!
Spot on. Ford is in a difficult position. I am glad they at least hedged their bet with the Lightning. This will put more pressure on Tesla.

What is intriguing to me is the whole pent up demand. Many people including myself are avoiding buying a new ICE while waiting for a BEV truck/suv/van. We are nursing our vehicles along in hopes that they make it until we get our CT. If Ford and Rivian can actually produce in bulk many CT buyers may bail....because they have to.

With the chip shortage, new used vehicles are at a real premium. Then you add people that are waiting to buy a BEV but need something in the interim. I am guessing that new used trucks are going to get very expensive in the next year and a $60,000 ICE truck today will only be worth $20,000 in 3 years. The market will sort itself out but it is going to be weird.

I think Ford/Rivian and Tesla are all going to have to get serious on their reservations to see what is real so they can plan accordingly. Things are about to get interesting.
 

TheLastStarfighter

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My home (Illinois) is currently heated with natural gas.

It's *electrical* demands seem fairly low, even on a cold winter's night. However, my house's total *energy* demands are pretty high in that same situation.

An all-electric house would be fairly demanding during Real Winter, due to the total energy requirement being in one place.

I'm looking into changing my house over to geothermal, but that costs almost as much as a CT1 and we are outgrowing this house.
I converted my property to air-to-air heat pumps. It's about 10,000 square feet with my home and 4 rental units. Previously it was a steam boiler with some electric baseboard and one heat pump - now it's all heat pump with electric baseboard. The total cost was around 35k, but my total energy consumption is down around 60% and I save around 10k per year.
 

Tinker71

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I converted my property to air-to-air heat pumps. It's about 10,000 square feet with my home and 4 rental units. Previously it was a steam boiler with some electric baseboard and one heat pump - now it's all heat pump with electric baseboard. The total cost was around 35k, but my total energy consumption is down around 60% and I save around 10k per year.
Heat Pumps rule? I can't wait for Tesla to market their heat pump/octovalve into the HVAC market.
 

Tinker71

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In that case, run your generator at its optimum and then supply the remainder on battery. That's how the better hybrids work, and how the fuel-cell vehicles work, because fuel-cells have a static output.

-Crissa
Did you get a chance to review this? https://newatlas.com/automotive/aquarius-single-piston-hydrogen-engine/ I am not a huge fan of hydrogen for transportation. Stationary uses such as cement plants yes, but I think we could blend 15% hydrogen with natural gas and distribute through the current infrastructure as a bridge technology.

I think this is too big. Optimal size would be such that the waste heat keeps your car/batteries warm in the winter.
 

Crissa

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Did you get a chance to review this?
No, combusted hydrogen generally wastes too much energy. Fuel cells are over twice as efficient. If you're going to spend so much energy creating your fuel, you had better get the energy back out.

-Crissa
 

Crissa

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Here's Ricky (Two-bit davinci('s take.

He's excited, but of course, he's also a Cybertruck reservation holder.

We'll see if tech or stealth eventually wins him over, but I'm betting it'll be tech.

-Crissa
 

Tinker71

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No, combusted hydrogen generally wastes too much energy. Fuel cells are over twice as efficient. If you're going to spend so much energy creating your fuel, you had better get the energy back out.

-Crissa
Something about 5 times larger than this would actually start to extend your towing range in a 4 hour period however these are still very expensive. This little guy could be awesome in the winter as it stands now.

Now we just need Tesla to give us some taps into the heating/cooling loop and an interface to charge the main battery on the go.

Screenshot 2021-05-25 072356.png
 

Crissa

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Yeah, propane/natural gas makes sense as a compact energy source for heat.

But that's because it occurs naturally, which hydrogen does not.

-Crissa
 

Red61224

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The E150 does not impress me at all. No interest whatsoever in Vehicle to House power transfer, that's what my propane generator is for. When the grid goes down and in the not so distant past we lost power for two weeks, yes, two weeks and the last thing I need is a dead vehicle AND a dead house. Nope, I have no problem at all firing up the propane whole house generator, keeping my food cold, the house cool and my water hot for a shower (a luxury BTW in these parts after a storm), and the lights on when I flip the switch instead of chasing after a flashlight. Where we live we have lost power from hurricanes four times I can remember in my lifetime and now when the NEXT ONE hits I can keep the house running and my vehicle fueled and skip the gas lines and the petrol station environment in style, think Beyond Thunderdome and you will be close. Just so you understand the severity of the situation in one hurricane EVERY line in the county was down and even some of the large high tension monster lines were down as well so we have gotten very good at being independent and getting by.
 
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