Cybertruck explosion in Las Vegas; terrorism investigation underway [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[JBee]

your telling me that planning, organizing, assembling and carry out something like this is an American right and liberty? To have a plan that will kill innocent Americans who have done nothing to deserve this is American. that we should not try and prevent this kind of thing because doing so is un-American! explain to me how stopping someone who fits all three criteria is unamerican. you guys quote me and leave out one of these 3 things and that is not what i said. I'm not anti-guns just anti-terrorism and i never said that you get prosecuted or thrown in jail for just triggering a lock down but questioned yes and then a more accurate accusation can be made after.

I think the counter argument that was trying to be made, is; at what point does freedom exist when persistent surveillance is prevalent and accepted as the norm in society? The root of freedom is "free of dominion", so essentially if you don't have dominion over yourself but someone else does, you also have no personal free-dom. Dominion is established through regulation, what you are allowed to or not allowed to do. Note here that "allow" means someone with that authority has given you permission to do so, which means by definition has dominion over what you do.

Classic example is "private" property, if it's "yours" you can live on it, dig it, cultivate it, sleep on it, improve it etc, nowadays though, only if you comply with xyz. If it would be "your country" though, you don't have to ask anyone for permission, you are the authority.

As for crimes, that's up to each jurisdiction to decide, provided said jurisdiction is in compliance with the will of the people it has jurisdiction over, which "should" be decided by your peers. This doesn't guarantee it's morally correct, just socially acceptable by the majority... if they believe the narrative, and subsequently your peers might or might not be offended by what you do.

On the other hand, morals and ethics in the natural world, are not subject to popular opinion or votes. Many unrighteous deeds have been "justified" and many righteous deeds "unjustified". The world is run on a accumulation of dead man's ideas, of which many are yet still to be proven in the test of time. More often than not though, less is more.

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[rlhamil]

A hint: if we want to continue talking (even speculating, some) about an actual event, best we not veer off into political philosophy.

 

[dalton108]

A hint: if we want to continue talking (even speculating, some) about an actual event, best we not veer off into political philosophy.

Admin can correct me if I’m wrong but I think the rule is intended to prevent fighting about partisan politics, not the basic philosophical underpinnings of how people interact. You can define any interaction between two people as “politics” if you want to go that far.

If I’m wrong, I’m sorry, and in my defense I did not start this! ?

 

[ARMANDO PADILLA]

so, let's say hypothetically you're standing there in front of the trump hotel with your wife and kids. and this maniac pulls up sweating profusely he catches your attention because he's not getting out you see him light a fuse that leads to the vault. and gun sitting in his lap. your wife says honey let's get out of here it looks like he just lit a bomb and he's holding a gun to his head now. That you would accuse your wife of being un-American for invading someone's privacy he hasn't done anything wrong he's just doing what American's do. we have to wait until he kills us then we could say he's was terrorist. not before how dare you..... Boom! ok now he's a terrorist

 

[CyberGus]

and if your not anti-terrorism please tell me why and how that is an American trait?

First they came for our Cybertrucks, and we did nothing.

This is how the terrorists win

 

[btcrealm]

So, Elon said he will get that cybertruck running again and apparently he is serious.
I'm sure not cost effective but I'd like to see the results of the project (time and monetary cost).

 

[rlhamil]

Look, I agree that the pre-crime movie approach is NOT the way to go. But even if that’s non-partisan, it’s contentious and generating a lot of off-topic posts.

My point is to choose self-restraint before the choice is made for you.

 

[CyberGus]

So, Elon said he will get that cybertruck running again and apparently he is serious.
I'm sure not cost effective but I'd like to see the results of the project (time and monetary cost).

I wanna see that CarFax

 

[dalton108]

so, let's say hypothetically you're standing there in front of the trump hotel with your wife and kids. and this maniac pulls up sweating profusely he catches your attention because he's not getting out you see him light a fuse that leads to the vault. and gun sitting in his lap. your wife says honey let's get out of here it looks like he just lit a bomb and he's holding a gun to his head now. That you would accuse your wife of being un-American for invading someone's privacy he hasn't done anything wrong he's just doing what American's do. we have to wait until he kills us then we could say he's was terrorist. not before how dare you..... Boom! ok now he's a terrorist

What you’re describing is an assault. And if that happens and you are genuinely in fear for your life and you have the means - take them out. You have every right to defend yourself. We’re not talking about a pre-crime here you’re talking about the already committed crime of assault.

Assault, so that you understand is the act of putting someone in reasonable fear of life or limb (not going to be more technical than this here in this form). The crime has been fully committed once you’ve seen the weapon and (if you’re right) reasonably feared harm was about to be follow you or your wife.

Again, you’re not going to come up with a scenario that hasn’t been definitely studied and understood by some of the smartest minds to ever walk this planet. We don’t need to debate this, it’s settled.

And because @rlhamil is 100% correct, I’ll say no more.

 

[dalton108]

I wanna see that CarFax

Trust me, sir, you don’t. ????

 

[rlhamil]

So, Elon said he will get that cybertruck running again and apparently he is serious.
I'm sure not cost effective but I'd like to see the results of the project (time and monetary cost).

It might be worth what they’d learn because that was beyond any normal stress or even crash testing. It could also be good publicity. If I were him, I’d trade it with the owner for a new one, especially considering that insurance might not cover this. That would definitely be good publicity then.

 

[dalton108]

It might be worth what they’d learn because that was beyond any normal stress or even crash testing. It could also be good publicity. If I were him, I’d trade it with the owner for a new one, especially considering that insurance might not cover this. That would definitely be good publicity then.

If he doesn’t return it to the original owner, I’ll bet he makes it his own personal car. My money is on the latter!

Maybe, put it at headquarters? ?

Either way, it’ll be in evidence for quite some time. Under the circumstances, I doubt the original owner will have to worry about a replacement even if his insurance company/Turo tried to deny the claim. Tesla or any number of third parties I’m sure would love the free publicity of replacing this guy’s car.

 

[Cyber Man]

Maybe, put it at headquarters? ?

or put it in Trump tower or Vegas entrance or Area15 and have a signboard that says “Truck that saved the Trump Tower”.

I think every damage should be kept original. Hope Elon doesn’t fix it. No better publicity than displaying it in Vegas, highlighting everything as-is! They can put some geeky fun facts as well - how much energy was released, distance between front tower door to the truck, velocity of air blowing upwards, damage to the exoskeleton, which is none, etc.

This will be CT’s way of flipping the finger to everyone who spreads FUD about it! ?

If someone from Tesla is watching this thread, please take this suggestion!

 

[ARMANDO PADILLA]

I don’t believe that you are native of this country, and (if I’m correct) it shows here. What you are describing is anti-American. It isn’t what we stand for, it’s not what our Constitution requires.

Like every lawyer, I’ve taken an oath to defend and support our Constitution, I take that seriously.

Advocating for preemptive action based on the mere potential for criminal behavior is antithetical to the presumption of innocence—a cornerstone of American jurisprudence, our national character and our basic core values.

Rights cannot be contingent on compliance with speculative or unwarranted investigations; this is precisely why we reject the dystopian concept of “pre-crime.” Our legal system is designed to address actual crimes, not imagined future ones.

What you’re describing would be illegal. What you’re describing would be a horrific thing to do to our free country. It doesn’t make it better to put that corrosive power in the hands of corporate owned AI. FFS! ??‍

Nothing you have suggested, can suggest, or might theorize can support the measures that you advocating.

It’s hubris (unwarranted) for you to think that you know better than the folks who set up this little experiment here. Not to mention those who have spilled and shed blood to protect it.

The only natives to this Country are American Indians and look what we did to their rights we would consider that as terrorism today. And if being born here and living here all my life half a century in America doesn't make you American, please tell me what does. And you guys keep saying " what you're describing here is anti-American" and making all these judgment calls on me based of what little you know about me. but you don't elaborate what part explain to me how intervention on a potential act of terrorism is unamerican or how you can make false accusations based on nothing of me as an American that's okay. But not on a person who has done what this person did on this day leading up to the bomb.

 

[dalton108]

Excerpt from the article I just read below ?:

Dean Livelsberger [the guy’s uncle] said he was aware of the explosion in Vegas, but had not yet been made aware that Matt, as he called him, had been named as the culprit until The Independent contacted him for comment. At first, Dean assumed the explosion had been caused by “one of those big lithium batteries that short-circuited or something,”

?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...pect-matthew-livelsberger-vegas-b2672940.html

This photo, also from the article is almost more haunting (to me) than the aftermath pictures.

He’s making a left turn onto the street that Trump tower is on. Right now he’s passing Capital Grille on the left and the Encore/Wynn on the right. He’s no more than 2 minutes from arriving at the property at this point.

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