This is an outrage! Tesla vandal causes $20,000 in damages, receives no charges.

[WILLK]

It’s property. It’s exactly the same inanimate object it would be if your wife or daughter were in the vehicle and crashed it and you would have grace and wisdom to say the same thing that everyone else says under such circumstances to your crying wife or daughter … “it’s just a truck!”

Guess what? It still is just a truck! Someone made a mistake, did something dumb. I’m supposing since I don’t know the facts and really don’t care that he is being put into a diversion program he probably has - no prior record whatsoever.

I have no doubt whatsoever that every single one of you demanding a pound of flesh right now would want nothing but grace, deference and a 2nd chance if this was your kid and that instead of because of politics he vandalize someone’s vehicle out of just boredom or because his sports team won or lost and he was hanging around with his buddies (which happens way more than this shit here). 100% guarantee it - to the man!

I am stupefied by how the introduction of just a little bit of politics turns people into blood thirsty ghouls over … again an inanimate object that can be easily repaired. Of course we want to prevent future crimes and have deterrent; but draconian overreactions do not have that outcome (this is known).

For fuck sakes, men! Jesus turned the other cheek! I see way too much Christian virtue singling on this forum to see the constant barrage of UNHINGED burn them at stake bs that proliferates here.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you guys???!!

We have an entire system and skilled professionals most of whom have been elected to deal with crime on a secular level. And for the rest of it, the guidance is not even sort of ambiguous especially for people who consider themselves “followers of Christ:

“But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

— Matthew 5:39, KJV

YIKES!!!!!! Seriously, WTF?

If I had caught him vandalizing my vehicle I would have rubbed his cheek against the concrete.

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[CyberGus]

I really don't know if some of the folks in this thread telling us to forgive, etc, have ever had their vehicles vandalized.

No one is telling you to forgive, except Jesus. But what does he know? He’s just a “free loaves and fishes” liberal, anyway.

Offering forgiveness is less about pardoning the guilty, and more about unburdening your soul from carrying the weight of anger and resentment. At least, that’s what Sister Katherine told me in the 3rd grade.

Priests offer comfort and counseling to murderers in prison, but they’re not trying to bust them out of death row. You can offer forgiveness to those that have wronged you while still expecting them to take accountability.

I don’t hate on this vandal, I pity him. I can’t imagine walking around with so much vitriol all the time, enough to make one lash out senselessly. Ultimately, it’s self-destructive.

 

[pkauf01]

Lets be real here...

If he loses his job and the MN DHS is seriously considering canning him, then he is left looking for something else. Since he is now "famous" due to the internet and local news in MN, he may actually have a tough time finding a job. Assuming he can't find a job, he plays his violin to the prosecutor and says "I have no job". The prosecutor gives him some pity. Let s say he gets a job slinging burgers at McDonalds or other fast food joint, then the people don't get the money back for many years. The victims aren't really made whole and this guy gets to move on with his life. It's a lose/lose. Even the sheriff of Hennepin is pissed about it.

Punitive actions by the prosecutor will have the effect of causing fear in other people who are considering this. Monetary diversion is a drop in the bucket for fear because others who do this may not have a "nice job" to help pay for damages. This happens ALL the time. OTOH, fear of being with Bubba in a jail cell for 3 years will cause others second thoughts about doing this.

Diversion programs don't do squat. It's a slap on the wrist. I am happy to have my tax money contribute towards a ward of the state if it causes a reduction in that sort of crime.

100%

 

[pkauf01]

He keyed six cars. He did not blow them up. Total damage is $21k. He IS paying it back plus the cost of investigation. He is NOT being let off. I am a law-and-order throw-the-book-at them type, but this is a stupid mistake and the victims AND SOCIETY are better off with this result than jailing him. To those who say we need examples and this is a good case to use for an example - I agree - except that the message from this case is already clear to every possible perp - you will be caught and there will be consequences. The perp did not get away with anything. He was arrested, cuffed, mug shot and perpwalked in an orange suit, spent a night in a cell. He has had the bejeesus scared into him. This is how first time property offenses should be handled - anything else and we’d have jails full of otherwise productive citizens. There is almost no doubt this guy will never do something thois dumb again. There is absolutely no doubt he will repay te victims

“Daniel Borgertpoepping, the spokesperson for the office of Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty, said that the attorney's office is still holding the suspect accountable, and claims its response is consistent with similar cases in which the suspect has no criminal record.

“We want to make sure we are very clear. What Mr. Adams did was wrong and we are holding him accountable for keying the cars. The HCAO did not reject or decline this case. We offered diversion as we often do with property damage cases when the person has no [criminal] record," said Borgertpoepping.


"Mr. Adams will have to complete the requirements of the program. He will also have to pay every penny in restitution to the victims. If he does not meet those requirements, we will proceed through the criminal legal system process.”

" but this is a stupid mistake" - I hate the mistake bullshit . . . It was a purposeful act. He didn't trip and key the vehicles. He made a choice, and SOME punishment other than just getting his daddy to pay a fine is warranted.

 

[Macgreiner]

I think he got off lightly. But this is what happens when you politicize an object/concept/science - Even the side that thinks it benefits most incurs unintended consequences.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

" but this is a stupid mistake" - I hate the mistake bullshit . . . It was a purposeful act. He didn't trip and key the vehicles. He made a choice, and SOME punishment other than just getting his daddy to pay a fine is warranted.

Semantics. Intentional acts, which this clearly was, can still be a mistake. You make a distinction without a difference. Much depends on post-act contrition, which is clearly in place here. Think any war wasn’t eventually viewed as a “mistake” by one side or the other? Purposeful acts are often also mistakes - in fact most mistakes ARE purposeful.

 

[MajorVictory]

Not just simple property damage.

Six Tesla vehicles specifically damaged.

This is a hate crime and the judge treating it as she did enables further hate crime.

 

[dalton108]

Not just simple property damage.

Six Tesla vehicles specifically damaged.

This is a hate crime and the judge treating it as she did enables further hate crime.

Not a hate crime. Sorry. I know some of you don’t like what it means, but that doesn’t change anything.

Laws aren’t just vibes, yet.

-————————————

illfully cause bodily injury to any person … because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person. Also covers acts committed due to “actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability”

Things not included in the current definition of a hate crime:

- Scratched my car because he doesn’t like it or the founder of the company that made it.

- Scratched a swastika on my car to demonstrate his displeasure with the politics of the CEO of the company that made it.

- kicked the tire of my truck while mean mugging.

- wrote mean stuff on the dust on my vehicle

- set multiple cars on fire in Vegas because I’m a wreckless asshat with a tragically stupid beard

Words, laws in particular have meaning that can’t be changed because somebody wants to send a political message that they too are worthy of protection from hate.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

No one is telling you to forgive, except Jesus. But what does he know? He’s just a “free loaves and fishes” liberal, anyway.

I'm not touching that one with a 10 ft pole ? You said it... not me!

Offering forgiveness is less about pardoning the guilty, and more about unburdening your soul from carrying the weight of anger and resentment. At least, that’s what Sister Katherine told me in the 3rd grade.

Sounds good... so then where do you draw the line? In the other thread about "revenge is sweet" that I started, from what I can see, most of those people there are "first time offenders" (or potentially assumed). So nobody should get jail time for that? Just pay for the damage? What prevents the next person from taking the risk to do it, when their personal risk is just paying for the damage and not getting a daily visit from Bubba?

We have lots of laws. Some of which I think are really stupid. In 100% honesty, some of these really dumb laws that we have I would happily break if my only repercussions was to pay some form of fine (like possession of a suppressor or a fully automatic weapon). What stops me from breaking many of these laws is my fear of having to live with Bubba for some time, losing my freedoms, losing my family, losing my life (as in getting 10 years in the pound-me-in-the ass-Federal-can for mere possession of the above items). If all I had was a simple fine for possession of those items, I would have one really cool arsenal of weapons, just for fun. But guess why I don't?

If we can't make examples of some of these people, then there is no fear to instill, which is why we are where we are at this juncture with our Teslas. People think they can key a swastika in it and at worst case they pay the damage. Worth the risk because it potentially doesn't blow up their life. I worked in the DOC as a deputy sheriff for a few years way back. I'll tell you, there is no place like that to make a person hit the straight and narrow... at least for semi-intelligent individuals.

Priests offer comfort and counseling to murderers in prison, but they’re not trying to bust them out of death row. You can offer forgiveness to those that have wronged you while still expecting them to take accountability.

Perfect! Then let the priests offer comfort and counseling in prison to the people who are damaging our vehicles. I am all for that!

I don’t hate on this vandal, I pity him. I can’t imagine walking around with so much vitriol all the time, enough to make one lash out senselessly. Ultimately, it’s self-destructive.

Nor do I hate him. But I certainly want to see him pay to make an example of him for others to hopefully stop the activity. I don't walk around with vitriol. I walk around with fear. Fear that my property gets damaged and the big headache it brings to getting it back to its prior self. I can't enjoy my Cybertruck the way that I want because I have to be fearful of where I park it and that it will be damaged by some moron. How do we fix that @CyberGus? Forgiving doesn't stop that. Making others fear what the law may do will stop that... and the only way that can happen is the law takes this seriously and shows others what will happen if someone decides to take that action. There are countless examples where a state lowered a penalty for doing a certain crime and then that crime went rampant. How do you fix this if everyone who violates the said crime gets forgiven?

 

[dalton108]

I'm not touching that one with a 10 ft pole ? You said it... not me!




Sounds good... so then where do you draw the line? In the other thread about "revenge is sweet" that I started, from what I can see, most of those people there are "first time offenders" (or potentially assumed). So nobody should get jail time for that? Just pay for the damage? What prevents the next person from taking the risk to do it, when their personal risk is just paying for the damage and not getting a daily visit from Bubba?

We have lots of laws. Some of which I think are really stupid. In 100% honesty, some of these really dumb laws that we have I would happily break if my only repercussions was to pay some form of fine (like possession of a suppressor or a fully automatic weapon). What stops me from breaking many of these laws is my fear of having to live with Bubba for some time, losing my freedoms, losing my family, losing my life (as in getting 10 years in the pound-me-in-the ass-Federal-can for mere possession of the above items). If all I had was a simple fine for possession of those items, I would have one really cool arsenal of weapons, just for fun. But guess why I don't?

If we can't make examples of some of these people, then there is no fear to instill, which is why we are where we are at this juncture with our Teslas. People think they can key a swastika in it and at worst case they pay the damage. Worth the risk because it potentially doesn't blow up their life. I worked in the DOC as a deputy sheriff for a few years way back. I'll tell you, there is no place like that to make a person hit the straight and narrow... at least for semi-intelligent individuals.



Perfect! Then let the priests offer comfort and counseling in prison to the people who are damaging our vehicles. I am all for that!



Nor do I hate him. But I certainly want to see him pay to make an example of him for others to hopefully stop the activity. I don't walk around with vitriol. I walk around with fear. Fear that my property gets damaged and the big headache it brings to getting it back to its prior self. I can't enjoy my Cybertruck the way that I want because I have to be fearful of where I park it and that it will be damaged by some moron. How do we fix that @CyberGus? Forgiving doesn't stop that. Making others fear what the law may do will stop that... and the only way that can happen is the law takes this seriously and shows others what will happen if someone decides to take that action. There are countless examples where a state lowered a penalty for doing a certain crime and then that crime went rampant. How do you fix this if everyone who violates the said crime gets forgiven?

I just wanna be clear about my position. Personally, I’m not forgiving and if I caught somebody vandalizing my vehicle a physical confrontation would likely occur.

Depending upon their reaction to my actions there could be consequences on both sides. I would have to suffer those consequences. I’m not telling anybody how to feel about the subject.

We are a nation of laws though and I’m just trying to explain the philosophical moral and historical underpinnings of our legal system.

What the pound of flesh crowd does not understand is that what they’re advocating for does not work and is not how we do things in this nation. It’s not about your politics it’s about what actually works. These things are known. These things have been tested we don’t have to guess.

I’m not talking about how politicians from either side spin things or what their emphasis might be when they’re in power.

I’m talking about how the whole thing works at a basic tactical level. Draconianism does not work to deter crime. It has the exact opposite effect.

If the system is brutal, arbitrary and severe those subject to the system become the same. Full stop.

This is not about being soft on crime. Certitude of consequences is what matters not severity of consequences. Consequences have to be tailored to the specific circumstances of the crime and the perpetrator. Virtue signaling on this makes it sound like you (“one” not you personally) don’t understand that if you raise your hand to strike a skittish animal and they piss themselves that actually striking them isn’t going to produce any greater result! If you don’t understand that then you’re either cruel or ineducable. The penal system is not about cruelty even when it’s about retribution.

Consistency in training your dog is going to get you more results then brutality once in a while if you catch them exhibiting some undesirable behavior. People too.

 

[CyberGus]

This thread has strayed significantly into the discouraged religious/political philosophical topics, and thus far most have remained respectful in offering their opinions.

I think I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead

 

[mhaze]

Let’s be factual. He is signing an agreement to make full repayment and be supervised for a period. It is a prosecutorial program called diversion and is available only for first-time offenders who are regretful and compliant. He can still be charged if he violates his public service or repayment obligations. It allows him to work instead of being a ward of the state and allows making money for restitution. It is essence an admission of guilt, with punishment, and a chance of redemption if followed closely. Have little grace.

Sure, let's be factual. We live in a time where Soros prosecutors are letting people off every day for serious crimes, and unfortunately this is exactly the sort of thing they'd do that for. What you've done is essentially read and cited to us the paperwork. What you have not done and cannot do is look at the actual outcome. Right now nobody knows what that may be, because it is a future event.

But there's every reason to be concerned that after the publicity has wore out, this perp is let off with a "wink, wink and a smirk."

 

[Great White]

Let’s be factual. He is signing an agreement to make full repayment and be supervised for a period. It is a prosecutorial program called diversion and is available only for first-time offenders who are regretful and compliant. He can still be charged if he violates his public service or repayment obligations. It allows him to work instead of being a ward of the state and allows making money for restitution. It is essence an admission of guilt, with punishment, and a chance of redemption if followed closely. Have little grace.

I have little grace for this criminal who is getting away with commiting horrible crimes against innocent property owners and is only remorseful because he was caught.
His case needs to be used to set an example for the community that opinions and beliefs are one thing but harming others, regardless of your righteousness, is crossing a line that will not be tolerated.

 

[vandytom]

Guys, he can still be sued in Civil court for damages. Hope they take every penny!

 

[dalton108]

Guys, he can still be sued in Civil court for damages. Hope they take every penny!

Correct.

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