Non FS what if.

[Gurule92]

Do you believe they sat in their ivory towers in Silicon Valley and Texas and thought, “gosh how can we really screw our customers? I know! Let’s mark up everything and really screw ‘em!.”
They could price it lower like Ford or Rivian and lose a crap ton of money on each vehicle, but that is horrible business (as their financials are showing).

Bait and switch implies slimey and sneaky and I would BET A LOT of money that they see how much it costs to build this unique vehicle and have to price it in a way to not lose a ton of money so that they can scale to make it affordable.

Gotta run a business ya know? Or you will end up like Ford’s EV side or Rivian who is burning cash in a way unseen by any EV startup.

Also, this wasn’t to be antagonistic or anything at all. Just I struggle with the “Tesla is out to screw people” with the way they priced it.. I don’t think it’s true ??

I'm not saying it's intentional or sneaky but it still happened. That doesnt change cause we are fans.

Elon just hides it under the guise of being optimistic but it's not the first and won't be the last time Tesla hypes something that isn't what was hyped

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[jerhenderson]

I'm not saying it's legally a bait and switch that's like pursuable but this definition fits

The key part is that the product is available. The CT was not.

Second key part : subject to change.

Read your reservation agreement.

 

[CyberTW]

I'm not saying it's intentional or sneaky but it still happened. That doesnt change cause we are fans.

Elon just hides it under the guise of being optimistic but it's not the first and won't be the last time Tesla hypes something that isn't what was hyped

That’s fair, but other than price and the 500mile variant (important to many I realize), I think they delivered an incredible vehicle that is hyped, just not to the CT diehards who waiting for a cheap 500 mile range truck

 

[Stinkd]

I am now really considering changing to FS AWD from my $79K future order. I think this thread is really important in discussing a few things -
1. Will the price of non FS trucks go up in price ?
2. Will buyers of non FS trucks end up purchasing these types of features once they finally get their vehicle as added features-
Wheels/AT tires- $5k
FSD- $8k
Voucher/access.- $3k

and premium audio, and supposable premium seat configuration, and charging port attached to house as part of FS options.

anyway, I'm gung ho for waiting 2 years to get a non FS, but these ideas are opening my eyes to whether buying the FS is a better choice

 

[Cyber Man]

I don’t think Tesla intentionally screwed customers. I admire Tesla for all the great things that they build, but pricing CT is one thing they got terribly wrong. The current pricing is justified in terms of what it takes to build one, but an important part of releasing any product is to have a good understanding of how much it’ll cost to mass produce a vehicle. If you are optimistic about it, that’s fine too. In this case the price got doubled. That’s way more optimistic. As Elon himself has said multiple times, it’s easy to prototype but volume production is a very tiring job. They should have done a good job of estimating what it takes to volume produce the vehicle. They had 4 years to figure it out. 2X price increase is way off the estimation. Inflation is not 20% every year. On top of that he said it’s still priced low. Being realistic with price is a very important part of running a business. The only reason Tesla is getting away is because they have built an incredible product, so owners are cutting some slack.

It doesn’t matter whether someone has disposable money or not. You can justify how 20K-30K is worth the experience, but that’s still money that could have been invested. Wouldn’t you want the same experience with $50K savings? Don’t you love buying more stuff for $50K? You could have purchased Beast and did crazy mods for $100K.

We can sit and justify the current price all day long, but Tesla got the pricing wrong in 2019. Period!

 

[Cyber Man]

I am now really considering changing to FS AWD from my $79K future order. I think this thread is really important in discussing a few things -
1. Will the price of non FS trucks go up in price ?
2. Will buyers of non FS trucks end up purchasing these types of features once they finally get their vehicle as added features-
Wheels/AT tires- $5k
FSD- $8k
Voucher/access.- $3k

and premium audio, and supposable premium seat configuration, and charging port attached to house as part of FS options.

anyway, I'm gung ho for waiting 2 years to get a non FS, but these ideas are opening my eyes to whether buying the FS is a better choice

You are absolutely right to give a second thought. I’m doing the same. My take on your questions - (1) No (2) Yes. My concern is if we end up buying accessories to match FS, and at the end if the cost difference is 5K to 6K and several months wait, then it’s not worth at all. Either buy Lightning or Rivian, or just swallow the hard pill and forget about it. Enjoy the truck!

Hard choice.

 

[CyberTW]

I don’t think Tesla intentionally screwed customers. I admire Tesla for all the great things that they build, but pricing CT is one thing they got terribly wrong. The current pricing is justified in terms of what it takes to build one, but an important part of releasing any product is to have a good understanding of how much it’ll cost to mass produce a vehicle. If you are optimistic about it, that’s fine too. In this case the price got doubled. That’s way more optimistic. As Elon himself has said multiple times, it’s easy to prototype but volume production is a very tiring job. They should have done a good job of estimating what it takes to volume produce the vehicle. They had 4 years to figure it out. 2X price increase is way off the estimation. Inflation is not 20% every year. On top of that he said it’s still priced low. Being realistic with price is a very important part of running a business. The only reason Tesla is getting away is because they have built an incredible product, so owners are cutting some slack.

It doesn’t matter whether someone has disposable money or not. You can justify how 20K-30K is worth the experience, but that’s still money that could have been invested. Wouldn’t you want the same experience with $50K savings? Don’t you love buying more stuff for $50K? You could have purchased Beast and did crazy mods for $100K.

We can sit and justify the current price all day long, but Tesla got the pricing wrong in 2019. Period!

I mean they could go the Ford or Rivian route and price vehicles 30-50k under what it takes to make them so they “look all cool and affordable”, meanwhile lose money hand over fist to the point of putting yourselves out of business. Is that a better decision than estimating wrong? (though I think that is way too simplistic to just say they didn’t foresee the issues and they are idiots for not seeing that - that isn’t a Tesla thing, it’s an automotive industry thing the last 4 years).
In 2019 maybe they honestly thought they could hit that, but to not acknowledge everything that went down the last 4 years externally and how that affected EVERYTHING is looking at things from way too narrow perspective imho

 

[Cybertruck Tampa]

A lot of members can easily afford $100k FS but they didn’t bite.

I am waiting simply because I don’t want to spend FS money on a depreciating asset.

one of the reasons I waited. I don’t plan on selling it, but I think buying something for 120k when a few months later is going to be 100k is just not smart. Also it will annoy me once people start buying the NON FS and I’m here looking a fool paying 20k more fore more problem and the same vehicle.

 

[Cyber Man]

I mean they could go the Ford or Rivian route and price vehicles 30-50k under what it takes to make them so they “look all cool and affordable”, meanwhile lose money hand over fist to the point of putting yourselves out of business. Is that a better decision than estimating wrong? (though I think that is way too simplistic to just say they didn’t foresee the issues and they are idiots for not seeing that - that isn’t a Tesla thing, it’s an automotive industry thing the last 4 years).
In 2019 maybe they honestly thought they could hit that, but to not acknowledge everything that went down the last 4 years externally and how that affected EVERYTHING is looking at things from way too narrow perspective imho

As I said, 2019 pricing was definitely not to trick customers. I agree that it was the target price they wanted to hit. All I’m saying is that they were way optimistic. I’m not saying they weren’t smart enough. They were just too bullish. The current CT price is justified. I reserved within 1 mins of unveiling. The number 1 thing in my mind was that if Tesla could make a stainless steel futuristic truck for $70K that can beat 911, take my money! It’s a no brainer.

There is no shame in admitting that they couldn’t hit that price point or were highly bullish. It’s their bullish nature that gets things done. I’m just saying there is no need for us to justify and defend Tesla for CT pricing. They got it wrong by being too bullish. They have hands down built an incredible product. Now decision is ours to buy it or not.

 

[CyberTW]

As I said, 2019 pricing was definitely not to trick customers. I agree that it was the target price they wanted to hit. All I’m saying is that they were way optimistic. I’m not saying they weren’t smart enough. They were just too bullish. The current CT price is justified. I reserved within 1 mins of unveiling. The number 1 thing in my mind was that if Tesla could make a stainless steel futuristic truck for $70K that can beat 911, take my money! It’s a no brainer.

There is no shame in admitting that they couldn’t hit that price point or were highly bullish. It’s their bullish nature that gets things done. I’m just saying there is no need for us to justify and defend Tesla for CT pricing. They got it wrong by being too bullish. They have hands down built an incredible product. Now decision is ours to buy it or not.

?. Agreed, I am tracking with you.
They missed on price and the 500mile range for the Tri. Big misses. I’d prefer to not pay such a lofty monthly payment for the FS AWD.. but now it’s like, “well, do I wait two years in hopes interest rates drop, prices drop on all aspects and battery density significantly improves, or do I bite the bullet?” It is what it is at this point. Luckily my COLAs have increased almost inline with inflation so monthly hit isn’t as bad now as it would have been 4 years ago either ??.

 

[Cyber Man]

?. Agreed, I am tracking with you.
They missed on price and the 500mile range for the Tri. Big misses. I’d prefer to not pay such a lofty monthly payment for the FS AWD.. but now it’s like, “well, do I wait two years in hopes interest rates drop, prices drop on all aspects and battery density significantly improves, or do I bite the bullet?” It is what it is at this point. Luckily my COLAs have increased almost inline with inflation so monthly hit isn’t as bad now as it would have been 4 years ago either ??.

I agree as well. If I was in your shoes, I would just buy FS. You are way down the reservation line. The dilemma is more for people like me who are way up the line and don’t want to pay $120K. I can get a Beast for the price of AWD without waiting for an year (RN11275). No joke!

In your case, I really hope you get the FS invite soon. I know you have been super ready to pull the trigger. It’ll be very disappointing if you don’t get it. Good luck my friend!

 

[CyberTW]

I agree as well. If I was in your shoes, I would just buy FS. You are way down the reservation line. The dilemma is more for people like me who are way up the line and don’t want to pay $120K. I can get a Beast for the price of AWD without waiting for an year (RN11275). No joke!

In your case, I really hope you get the FS invite soon. I know you have been super ready to pull the trigger. It’ll be very disappointing if you don’t get it. Good luck my friend!

Thank you sir!! Much appreciated! Like wise! I would do the exact same thing as you if I was high enough to know I would be getting it in 2025. I don’t want to pay the 100k honestly, but the reality of where I sit in line, being fiscally responsible for a long time and preparing a budget to accommodate this expense, the family need now, and me going through my “midlife crisis” in getting a cool Tesla truck… well, f’ it ya know! Hopefully we are both cruising within a year in what many on here are calling the best vehicle they have ever driven!

 

[Jager]

Tesla is the only manufacturer out there that is building EV's at scale, and at a profit. Given that, it's probably not helpful to contrast them with anyone else in that space.

The singular reason for the two big misses (price and range) of the Cybertruck vis-a-vis the 2019 reveal was the broad failure of the 4680. Tesla expected to hit targets for energy density and cost of that battery that now, nearly five years later, have still yet to be achieved - and may very well never be.

The pack is the largest single cost component in an EV. You can't effectively price a prototype vehicle without knowing that cost.

Trust me, as disappointed as we are with the cost (and, in the case of the Beast... range) of the Cybertruck, our angst no doubt pales in comparison with that of senior management at Tesla.

 

[NightOwl]

one of the reasons I waited. I don’t plan on selling it, but I think buying something for 120k when a few months later is going to be 100k is just not smart. Also it will annoy me once people start buying the NON FS and I’m here looking a fool paying 20k more fore more problem and the same vehicle.

But it’s not the same truck. Some people want you to feel that way to help them justify their own decision for waiting as well. But, again, it’s literally optioned differently. You’ll pay a lot of that $20k difference to get the options the FS offers.

Now if you’re not interested in the options, I can understand waiting. But, again, it’s an apples to oranges comparison when talking about FS to non-FS.

edit: I should say “FS to non-FS without the options.”

 

[Stinkd]

I am going to drive over to my local Tesla shop now, see if I can have a sit down to understand more about Founders Series.

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