Secret Cybertruck accessories parts team: What do you want them to make?

[Luke42]

Can you explain that further? What does the inverter panel have to do with an ePTO and how would that work for a trailer?

PTO is Power Take Off.

ePTO is electric Power Takeoff.

I can think of two ways to take electric power from the vehicle:

• HVDC, which is directly tapping into the battery bus. There is no established standard for this, but I can imagine a big Anderson connector combined with a current-limiting device (circuit breaker). This could easily power the electric motor + driveshaft that everyone's talking about - and the motor could be mounted in the truck, or on the towed-equipment. The problem is that you basically have to be an electrical engineer to know what to do with 800VDC (nominal) at 100amps (or whatever), and to not kill yourself with it -- so I don't expect Tesla's lawyers to allow this. However, from an engineer's perspective, it would be a very effective way to power towed power-equipment.
• Mains-style AC power in the bed of the truck. This basically takes the HVDC ePTO in one side, and has a regular person electric outlets on the other side. It looks like a generator, but it's in the bed of the truck. There's standards for this, and decades of precedent. This is something that you can actually sell, because there are Best Practices that you can follow. This is what the F150 Hybrid has.

What's special about the F150 Hybrid's generator output panel (ePTO to me) is that it comes in 2kW and 7kW sizes. The 7kW size has some hefty outlets.

The American 120V 15-amp outlet is pretty weak. But, a bigger outlets like a NEMA 14-50 had a lot of uses because you can get about 11.75 horsepower through the wire. You can do a lot with that. In my mind, a real ePTO would supply 220V at 50 amps -- or HVDC with some pre-approved accessories.

For my travel trailer, it's powered by 110V at 30amps, so the ideal camper-supoort vehicle could supply that using a variety of outlets (including a NEMA 14-50).

For me the ideal ePTO would be an HVDC plug, but it would come with a generator-like inverter panel that would be designed to match the electrical standards of the customer's nation and provide up to about 12kW. But, those of us who are willing to take responsibility for our own lives (electrically speaking) could remove the panel and have relatively easy access the HVDC source ourselves to power large equipment.

However, my Model Y just has a couple of low-wattage USB-C ports in awkward locations (fixable with an accessory from Digital Ocean). Its USB-C ports can't power a laptop and it doesn't have an 110V inverter that can power a laptop either. The Model Y competitive with gasoline vehicles in its class in terms of the power it will supply, but it's not EV-native in terms of supply accessory-power just yet.

I'm really expecting the Cybertruck to be a big Model Y with stainless steel skin and an extended-range battery -- so I'm not holding my breath for an F150-like inverter feature in the Cybertruck.

An inverter panel which supplies mains power (for your locality) is t the L1 Output of ePTOs.

An inverter panel with a NEMA 14-50 (or the equivalent for your locality) is the L2 Output of ePTOs.

An HVDC connector of some sort is the L3 Output of ePTOs.

Hey, that nomenclature works better than it should!

 

[Kingleo]

I want them to make snow plows since the ford can’t use after market plow that would be another nail in the other electric trucks coffins

 

[JBee]

I wonder how long this will t

PTO is Power Take Off.

ePTO is electric Power Takeoff.

I can think of two ways to take electric power from the vehicle:

• HVDC, which is directly tapping into the battery bus. There is no established standard for this, but I can imagine a big Anderson connector combined with a current-limiting device (circuit breaker). This could easily power the electric motor + driveshaft that everyone's talking about - and the motor could be mounted in the truck, or on the towed-equipment. The problem is that you basically have to be an electrical engineer to know what to do with 800VDC (nominal) at 100amps (or whatever), and to not kill yourself with it -- so I don't expect Tesla's lawyers to allow this. However, from an engineer's perspective, it would be a very effective way to power towed power-equipment.
• Mains-style AC power in the bed of the truck. This basically takes the HVDC ePTO in one side, and has a regular person electric outlets on the other side. It looks like a generator, but it's in the bed of the truck. There's standards for this, and decades of precedent. This is something that you can actually sell, because there are Best Practices that you can follow. This is what the F150 Hybrid has.

What's special about the F150 Hybrid's generator output panel (ePTO to me) is that it comes in 2kW and 7kW sizes. The 7kW size has some hefty outlets.

The American 120V 15-amp outlet is pretty weak. But, a bigger outlets like a NEMA 14-50 had a lot of uses because you can get about 11.75 horsepower through the wire. You can do a lot with that. In my mind, a real ePTO would supply 220V at 50 amps -- or HVDC with some pre-approved accessories.

For my travel trailer, it's powered by 110V at 30amps, so the ideal camper-supoort vehicle could supply that using a variety of outlets (including a NEMA 14-50).

For me the ideal ePTO would be an HVDC plug, but it would come with a generator-like inverter panel that would be designed to match the electrical standards of the customer's nation and provide up to about 12kW. But, those of us who are willing to take responsibility for our own lives (electrically speaking) could remove the panel and have relatively easy access the HVDC source ourselves to power large equipment.

However, my Model Y just has a couple of low-wattage USB-C ports in awkward locations (fixable with an accessory from Digital Ocean). Its USB-C ports can't power a laptop and it doesn't have an 110V inverter that can power a laptop either. The Model Y competitive with gasoline vehicles in its class in terms of the power it will supply, but it's not EV-native in terms of supply accessory-power just yet.

I'm really expecting the Cybertruck to be a big Model Y with stainless steel skin and an extended-range battery -- so I'm not holding my breath for an F150-like inverter feature in the Cybertruck.

An inverter panel which supplies mains power (for your locality) is t the L1 Output of ePTOs.

An inverter panel with a NEMA 14-50 (or the equivalent for your locality) is the L2 Output of ePTOs.

An HVDC connector of some sort is the L3 Output of ePTOs.

Hey, that nomenclature works better than it should!

Not quite sure what you are trying to makeup here. Do some googling.

An ePTO is not the same as a PowerPoint connection to an inverter. What exactly is a "inverter panel"? A fuse box, or power outlet?

You also can't run many motors directly off a HVDC connectionand the ones you could, like a brushed DC motor, wouldn't last very long driving an implement. Most motors you can speed control, which I'd consider a prerequisite for a ePTO are AC, and use a VSD for speed control.

Connecting to HVDC would be no different than connecting it to a 1000V v4 Supercharger, because that is what it is. In fact most V2L capable vehicles use exactly that to drive extrrnal implement, the charge plug. (See EV6 etc) So not more of a safety risk than charging, plus it would still have protection and negotiate a connection before enabling the circuit anyway.

If anything an ePTO could run off a custom bi-directional variable speed drive inverter which can modulate a connected motor speed and torque. That same inverter could also be switched over to supply a 3phase power outlet to run powerpoints in the vehicle, or to an input to charge the vehicle.

 

[Scott Beall]

That’s not a PTO, that’s a WTO (Wheel Take Off).

Pretty cool. Maybe Tesla could have one of those where you pop your wheel off, put it in WTO mode, then it just spins the one half-axel.

Just one reason why women live longer than men...

 

[Timoj]

PTO is Power Take Off.

ePTO is electric Power Takeoff.

I can think of two ways to take electric power from the vehicle:

• HVDC, which is directly tapping into the battery bus. There is no established standard for this, but I can imagine a big Anderson connector combined with a current-limiting device (circuit breaker). This could easily power the electric motor + driveshaft that everyone's talking about - and the motor could be mounted in the truck, or on the towed-equipment. The problem is that you basically have to be an electrical engineer to know what to do with 800VDC (nominal) at 100amps (or whatever), and to not kill yourself with it -- so I don't expect Tesla's lawyers to allow this. However, from an engineer's perspective, it would be a very effective way to power towed power-equipment.
• Mains-style AC power in the bed of the truck. This basically takes the HVDC ePTO in one side, and has a regular person electric outlets on the other side. It looks like a generator, but it's in the bed of the truck. There's standards for this, and decades of precedent. This is something that you can actually sell, because there are Best Practices that you can follow. This is what the F150 Hybrid has.

What's special about the F150 Hybrid's generator output panel (ePTO to me) is that it comes in 2kW and 7kW sizes. The 7kW size has some hefty outlets.

The American 120V 15-amp outlet is pretty weak. But, a bigger outlets like a NEMA 14-50 had a lot of uses because you can get about 11.75 horsepower through the wire. You can do a lot with that. In my mind, a real ePTO would supply 220V at 50 amps -- or HVDC with some pre-approved accessories.

For my travel trailer, it's powered by 110V at 30amps, so the ideal camper-supoort vehicle could supply that using a variety of outlets (including a NEMA 14-50).

For me the ideal ePTO would be an HVDC plug, but it would come with a generator-like inverter panel that would be designed to match the electrical standards of the customer's nation and provide up to about 12kW. But, those of us who are willing to take responsibility for our own lives (electrically speaking) could remove the panel and have relatively easy access the HVDC source ourselves to power large equipment.

However, my Model Y just has a couple of low-wattage USB-C ports in awkward locations (fixable with an accessory from Digital Ocean). Its USB-C ports can't power a laptop and it doesn't have an 110V inverter that can power a laptop either. The Model Y competitive with gasoline vehicles in its class in terms of the power it will supply, but it's not EV-native in terms of supply accessory-power just yet.

I'm really expecting the Cybertruck to be a big Model Y with stainless steel skin and an extended-range battery -- so I'm not holding my breath for an F150-like inverter feature in the Cybertruck.

An inverter panel which supplies mains power (for your locality) is t the L1 Output of ePTOs.

An inverter panel with a NEMA 14-50 (or the equivalent for your locality) is the L2 Output of ePTOs.

An HVDC connector of some sort is the L3 Output of ePTOs.

Hey, that nomenclature works better than it should!

I think you are confusing the nomenclature here.

A traditional PTO is a mechanical spinning shaft that is controlled by the engine speed of an internal combustion motor.

In this context an ePTO is a spinning shaft that is simply run by an electric motor but is positioned on the vehicle to function similarly as a traditional ICE PTO.

Your definition of an ePTO is simply a power outlet or V2X. Otherwise we would call a Warn 12v winch connection an ePTO… we don’t. It’s just an electrical plug.

 

[Timoj]

That’s not a PTO, that’s a WTO (Wheel Take Off).

Pretty cool. Maybe Tesla could have one of those where you pop your wheel off, put it in WTO mode, then it just spins the one half-axel.

Or just leave the wheel on


If Tesla can integrate individual control of the air suspension and individual motors through the UI screen and App the need for a traditional winch would be deleted….

best part is no part.

 

[Luke42]

In this context an ePTO is a spinning shaft that is simply run by an electric motor but is positioned on the vehicle to function similarly as a traditional ICE PTO.

Your definition of an ePTO is simply a power outlet or V2X. Otherwise we would call a Warn 12v winch connection an ePTO… we don’t. It’s just an electrical plug.

If you're pulling power off the vehicle by using a spinning shaft, it's a PTO without and prefixes or suffixes.

We don't differentiate between hydraulically powered PTOs and transmission-PTOs, at least in the field -- how power is routed within the vehicle is beyond the scope of the PTO interface.

The term ePTO only makes sense if you're taking electrical power off of the vehicle via wires.

If it's a spinning shaft on the vehicle, it's just a PTO.

I don't expect the Cybertruck to have a mechanical PTO shaft of any kind. The vehicles they're benchmarking (like the F150) don't have PTO shafts on the back of the truck - and for very good reasons.

An electrical power takeoff (HVDC and/or an AC inverter) would make a lot of sense on the Cybertruck - both for practical and to compete with the F150 Hybrid which has an AC inverter mounted on a panel in the bed of the truck.

I will be very surprised if there is any provision for a mechanical PTO on the Cybertruck. Tractors are better at tractor-stuff.

 

[JBee]

If you're pulling power off the vehicle by using a spinning shaft, it's a PTO without and prefixes or suffixes.

We don't differentiate between hydraulically powered PTOs and transmission-PTOs, at least in the field -- how power is routed within the vehicle is beyond the scope of the PTO interface.

The term ePTO only makes sense if you're taking electrical power off of the vehicle via wires.

If it's a spinning shaft on the vehicle, it's just a PTO.

I don't expect the Cybertruck to have a mechanical PTO shaft of any kind. The vehicles they're benchmarking (like the F150) don't have PTO shafts on the back of the truck - and for very good reasons.

An electrical power takeoff (HVDC and/or an AC inverter) would make a lot of sense on the Cybertruck - both for practical and to compete with the F150 Hybrid which has an AC inverter mounted on a panel in the bed of the truck.

I will be very surprised if there is any provision for a mechanical PTO on the Cybertruck. Tractors are better at tractor-stuff.

FYI F150-F550 have PTO options on the gearbox and motor.

 

[Ogre]

I don't expect the Cybertruck to have a mechanical PTO shaft of any kind. The vehicles they're benchmarking (like the F150) don't have PTO shafts on the back of the truck - and for very good reasons.

Bingo.

All the special linkages would be just as expensive as the discrete motors they replace.

 

[Gurule92]

Man the PTO took over this thread

 

[Luke42]

FYI F150-F550 have PTO options on the gearbox and motor.

I did a writeup about that, but it distracted from my main point so I took it out.

The side-transmission PTO port on some bigger Ford trucks is usually used for a hydraulic pump (or maybe a generator?) for frame-mounted accessories.

I've never heard or seen one one being routed to the back bumper for a tractor-style PTO shaft, at least here in the USA.

 

[HaulingAss]

Tesla barely does accessories.

You have to understand what Tesla is, and isn't. Owning a Tesla is a way to live in the sci-fi future that we all were promised as kids. Owning a Tesla is not a turnkey experience -- it's like buying a $60k smartphone, where you have to download a half a dozen paid apps before you can really get started.

With that as context, you should expect your new hobby to be adapting accessories to the Cybertruck. You'll need something like this 48V to 12V buck converter, with the appropriate amperage for whatever 12V accessor you plan to use:

BIRITALO 48V Step Down to 12V 20A Waterproof DC Voltage Converter Reducer Module 240W Regulator for Golf Cart Club Car Truck Vehicle Led Strip Light https://a.co/d/cNTrSWk​

Once you have that, you can use a 12V winch, once you figure out the mechanical aspect of mounting it.

That'll have to do until (if?) the usual aftermarket suppliers start adapting their products to the Cybertruck's unique one-off (so far) electrical system.

If you want a truck which is compatible with the existing aftermarket (except for snowplows), the F150 Lightning is your ride.

What a load of crap!

Tesla is going to make a killing supplying high-quality, well-engineered accessories for Cybertruck.

And owning a Tesla may not be a turnkey experience, but only because there is no key to turn! You don't have to own a half dozen paid apps before you can get started, the Tesla experience is about getting the job done with a minimum of dinking around. Just get in and drive.

Converting 48V so you can use a 12V winch is just plain stupid. 12V winches are inferior to a native 48V winch. If you have special needs, maybe just stick with a legacy truck. Personally, I can't wait to get rid of mine.

 

[flowerlandfilms]

Given as the truck will happily deliver all the power you need, PTO sounds like it should stand for Pointless Tertiary Offering.

 

[HaulingAss]

Thank you for your feedback and link. I was told that this time Tesla might need to get into it for "major" accessories given they are moving to a non-standard 48Volts architecture. I guess they are making it as they go. Will there be a need to update any standards as a results? Any impact or consequences?
What about the Semi or other new Tesla Vehicles? I am also curious about Optimus (48Volts?). I also understand the BOM (Build Of Material) challenge with sorting, packaging and shipping. My Cybertruck might be the ultimate accessory to the new Tesla Pie phone I am planning on getting. I am saying this because a cellphone is always with it's user. Note: I will buy a Tesla Pie phone as soon as they are out.

We know that Tesla is making all the electronic motors and linear actuators for Optimus in-house. That's a big deal with ramifications for Cybertruck. Tesla released a video depicting a small linear actuator lifting a large piano off the floor.

I don't know for sure if Tesla has announced the system voltage of the robots, but I bet it's 48 volts! This is very exciting since the Cybertruck will be Tesla's most vertically integrated vehicle yet (most components made in-house to suit rather than purchased off-the-shelf or special ordered from an automotive supplier like legacy auto does with almost everything). This means we'll likely have some really great powered accessories that run off the native 48-volt architecture that are powerful, efficient and quiet and require little to no maintenance.

I wouldn't expect all the niche accessories to be immediately available with the initial deliveries of Cybertruck, but I think in time there will be 48V winches that integrate seamlessly, slick snowplows that run on 48 volts, maybe even a robotic arm that folds up tightly to the side of the bed, to name but a few possibilities. None of those whiny electric motors like you hear grinding and squealing away at the boatramp as people winch their boats onto their trailers, these will be high-tech, lightweight, smooth and powerful, very efficient electric motors that last the life of the vehicle.

 

[HaulingAss]

Tesla could sell me matrix headlights as an upgrade for my Model Y! This is an obvious upgrade, and some MYLRs made within a month of mine included them due to parts shortages - and I'm more likely to spend on this type of upgrade than on the "acceleration boost" software update. I'd expect this to be about a $1500 upgrade.

I'm laughing my ass off at this comment. Have you ever priced a single replacement matrix headlight from another manufacturer? Check this out:

5 cars that have expensive headlights to replace - headlights.com

Keep in mind that the prices quoted in this article are over 3 years old and are for one headlight, not two!